How will the trolls be handled?

[CallMeTyler]

The devils is in the details, though. The obvious stuff (slurs etc.) is obvious.

But let’s take calling Kamala Harris “low IQ” as an example. My immediate response is that is a racist stereotype, TBH, BUT I have called Lt. Gov Robinson, for instance, a moron many times. Was I being racist?

I would like to try to have discussions first along the lines of “I hope you didn’t mean it this way, when you call Harris a “low IQ black woman” the reference to her race and gender as part of the insult seems to intentionally conflate your opinion (warranted or not) of her intelligence with her race and gender as support. I hope you can see how insulting that is to women and black people and harkens back to egregious stereotypes.”

I’m not naive enough to think that would be all that successful with some posters, but could change the tone with good faith posters.

I can't say I've ever encountered a right-leaning poster who wasn't intending to slur an AFAM woman by using dog whistles like "low IQ or DEI hire". It's far too obvious.

 

[Bigs23]

The devils is in the details, though. The obvious stuff (slurs etc.) is obvious.

But let’s take calling Kamala Harris “low IQ” as an example. My immediate response is that is a racist stereotype, TBH, BUT I have called Lt. Gov Robinson, for instance, a moron many times. Was I being racist?

I would like to try to have discussions first along the lines of “I hope you didn’t mean it this way, when you call Harris a “low IQ black woman” the reference to her race and gender as part of the insult seems to intentionally conflate your opinion (warranted or not) of her intelligence with her race and gender as support. I hope you can see how insulting that is to women and black people and harkens back to egregious stereotypes.”

I’m not naive enough to think that would be all that successful with some posters, but could change the tone with good faith posters.

You didn’t call Robinson a black moron.

 

[nycfan]

I can't say I've ever encountered a right-leaning poster who wasn't intending to slur an AFAM woman by using dog whistles like "low IQ or DEI hire". It's far too obvious.

As I said, that is also my initial reaction. And the substitution of “DEI-hire” as a new catch-all slur for anyone who is not a white straight man is undeniable, IMO. But I also think too often the response jumps to “you’re a racist” rather than challenging the statement and not the poster’s entire world view — I know that can be hard to separate.

I come at it as a 50-something child of Appalachia. There are people I deeply love and who cared for me who said openly racist things. I was not raised that way and even the relatives who behaved like that did the two step of don’t be like me, it’s how I was raised. I pushed back and they changed the way they talked about it, at least around me. Most of them are dead or quite elderly now. And I still love them, even though it is hard to reconcile how a person could at once be so good and decent to some and harbor irrational bias toward others based on physical characteristics.

Anyway, that history makes me want to engage and educate in hopes of even incremental change. I know that is not exactly fashionable now and maybe it shouldn’t be, I don’t really know.

 

[korgguy1971]

It's possible we may have just had our first ban (unconfirmed). Nonetheless, congrats to you, KarlMarxism!

 

[Centerpiece]

Yes, I do believe old Karl is numero uno on the banned list.

 

[lawtig02]

It's possible we may have just had our first ban (unconfirmed). Nonetheless, congrats to you, KarlMarxism!

 

[Rock]

Karl can indeed update their LinkedIn to include first poster banned on zzlpolitics.com.

If this board was established for a year or two, maybe he could have survived a little longer as a parody poster type but in the first four days, multiple reports from users and multiple users calling him out as purposefully antagonistic seems like a good line to draw for us.

Thanks to those that reported and it will happen quicker next time (in the event it's justified) once I figure out a glitch with giving out mod powers.

 

[aGDevil2k]

If only it existed on the 247 software. The 247 techs showed no interest in wanting to program it, thought it would be fairly easy - the tech already exists for the ignore function, it is just giving moderators the power to set the flag on the account. On the original ezboard software that IC used about 20 years ago, i was able to do this when I could put custom javascript into the header and footer of a page. I could do all sorts of things, like make a person's text appear pink for them only. I of course didn't do that but...

It might exist here on this superior software.

Remember when admins had private forums to actually help moderate the boards? Hard to think how bad 247 became...

 

[CallMeTyler]

As I said, that is also my initial reaction. And the substitution of “DEI-hire” as a new catch-all slur for anyone who is not a white straight man is undeniable, IMO. But I also think too often the response jumps to “you’re a racist” rather than challenging the statement and not the poster’s entire world view — I know that can be hard to separate.

I come at it as a 50-something child of Appalachia. There are people I deeply love and who cared for me who said openly racist things. I was not raised that way and even the relatives who behaved like that did the two step of don’t be like me, it’s how I was raised. I pushed back and they changed the way they talked about it, at least around me. Most of them are dead or quite elderly now. And I still love them, even though it is hard to reconcile how a person could at once be so good and decent to some and harbor irrational bias toward others based on physical characteristics.

Anyway, that history makes me want to engage and educate in hopes of even incremental change. I know that is not exactly fashionable now and maybe it shouldn’t be, I don’t really know.

I completely agree with this, especially the part about people you know and love, typically family, who have this racial bias and maybe even hatred towards others they don't know/understand. They can have some of the most affable qualities, helpful to their communities, support and love those needing help, but then spew racists rhetoric at the television. Like a coin, they just flip with almost zero awareness.

But to your well-stated point, we shouldn't discard everyone for one dissenting view if they can be redeemable in other ways. And maybe winning minds starts that way - but there's a part of me that finds that particular exercise unrealistic wrt online discourse. The anonymity allows for some truly detestable behavior and I don't see, say a true dyed in the wool MAGA, spending time here and actually reading/listening to alternative views to the point they come to some realization and change.

I don't even know if a forum is capable of creating an environment like that for people. Maybe it is, but maybe I'm too cynical. I'll admit as much.

Anyway, I appreciate the lengthy response.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

As I said, that is also my initial reaction. And the substitution of “DEI-hire” as a new catch-all slur for anyone who is not a white straight man is undeniable, IMO. But I also think too often the response jumps to “you’re a racist” rather than challenging the statement and not the poster’s entire world view — I know that can be hard to separate.

I come at it as a 50-something child of Appalachia. There are people I deeply love and who cared for me who said openly racist things. I was not raised that way and even the relatives who behaved like that did the two step of don’t be like me, it’s how I was raised. I pushed back and they changed the way they talked about it, at least around me. Most of them are dead or quite elderly now. And I still love them, even though it is hard to reconcile how a person could at once be so good and decent to some and harbor irrational bias toward others based on physical characteristics.

Anyway, that history makes me want to engage and educate in hopes of even incremental change. I know that is not exactly fashionable now and maybe it shouldn’t be, I don’t really know.

I don't think the DEI stuff is that obvious. How could you make an honest argument of the negative effects of DEI or reverse racism without citing what Harris or people like her are facing? She will never be given credit for her accomplishments because there is the very real possibility that she got some of her positions, in part, because of her race.

 

[Rock]

Remember when admins had private forums to actually help moderate the boards? Hard to think how bad 247 became...

I am stunned, stunned at some of the decisions 247 has made and their complete lack of transparency/communication with users. Nearly every company bends over backwards to reassure and attempt to explain things to its customers. 247? Can't be bothered with that sort of thing.

Only thing I can come up with is the decision makers stumbled into the job with no understanding of forums/engagement and just see it as a stupid nerd thing. With the amount of grief/problems/complaints, you'd think they'd wise up and make things easier for sites and moderators and users but no, just close/ban/get rid of everything.

 

[mpaer]

I got my first job-which led to an almost 40 yr career - because I was a boy from Carolina . Boss had three new spots-hired two dook girls (it was at dook ) and he wanted to balance things out .. I was a proud DEI hire

 

[CFordUNC]

I don't think the DEI stuff is that obvious. How could you make an honest argument of the negative effects of DEI or reverse racism without citing what Harris or people like her are facing? She will never be given credit for her accomplishments because there is the very real possibility that she got some of her positions, in part, because of her race.

I hear you, but I don't think it's entirely true that Harris will "never be given credit for her accomplishments because there is the very real possibility that she got some of her positions, in part, because of her race." I think that anyone who believes that already has a predisposition toward prejudice- not necessarily outright racism or sexism, but certainly prejudice- and won't be convinced otherwise that she (and people like her) earned their position through aptitude, competence, intelligence, hard work, genuine networking, etc.

I'm a straight, white, Christian male and I am certain that I was a beneficiary of "DEI-esque" admissions policies at UNC (well before DEI was a hot-button culture war issue). In my case, coming from a poor, rural background, as the first person in my entire extended family (which includes 62 first cousins, if that tells anything) to attend college, from a high school that at the time was ranked as one of the worst in the state, I am certain that I was admitted based on certain demographics. I am absolutely certain that there were thousands upon thousands of better-qualified applicants in the applicant pool who were much better candidates on paper for admission to UNC than I could ever have hoped to be. But once I received that initial helping hand- and everyone in life receives a helping hand of some sort- I tried to make the best of the opportunity I was granted. And I think that is largely true for the vast majority of people that our society collectively sneers as "DEI hires/admissions." I don't feel any shame whatsoever for having been given the opportunity that I was given at UNC based on my demographics, and I don't feel that it lessens or diminishes my accomplishments.

 

[nycfan]

I don't think the DEI stuff is that obvious. How could you make an honest argument of the negative effects of DEI or reverse racism without citing what Harris or people like her are facing? She will never be given credit for her accomplishments because there is the very real possibility that she got some of her positions, in part, because of her race.

To be clear, I think debate about DEI (or previous affirmative action or similar) policies is reasonable and should be part of a healthy discourse. But I think the use of “DEI-hire” has become a ones-stop slur. The folks using it tell you that “DEI” stands for “Didn’t Earn It” and then blame every accident in every field on “DEI -hires” to mean it happened because someone other than a straight white male has a job somewhere in the organization above janitor or secretary.

OTOH, I don’t think discussing or arguing against the application of diversity, equity and inclusion policies is inherently problematic. I also don’t think arguing for “merit-based” hiring or advancement is inherently some white supremacist proposition, notwithstanding that far too many open white supremacists use it as short-hand for their ludicrous assumptions about their own merit.

 

[WaynetheDrain]

I don't think the DEI stuff is that obvious. How could you make an honest argument of the negative effects of DEI or reverse racism without citing what Harris or people like her are facing? She will never be given credit for her accomplishments because there is the very real possibility that she got some of her positions, in part, because of her race.

I was in agreement with you until your last sentence.

This kind of thinking is WHY DEI has turned into the new grievance du jour of the GOP. It’s one thing to acknowledge that DEI hires exist, but to ASSUME that somewhere along the line she was one is misguided and dangerous because it perpetuates the stereotype that all people of color that rise to positions of power didn’t work as hard as a white person did in that same position.

 

[altmin]

Remember when admins had private forums to actually help moderate the boards? Hard to think how bad 247 became...

Yeah. Discord, which IC uses, is a poor replacement. Having threads dedicated to individual posters so you can easily see the history of warnings etc was so efficient.

When we switched over, I offered to setup a forum on a private server for the ZZl mods to use before it was clear they would have access to the Discord. It's pretty sad you have to utilize a third party forum to moderate your forum...

 

[Rock]

Do you have any insight/can you offer how long IC is with 247 contractually? If Ben and whoever has the ability at some point, I don't understand why they stay under their umbrella. Get out, fix the forum software, take payments through a 3rd party app, etc.

 

[CallMeTyler]

Do you have any insight/can you offer how long IC is with 247 contractually? If Ben and whoever has the ability at some point, I don't understand why they stay under their umbrella. Get out, fix the forum software, take payments through a 3rd party app, etc.

But they lose the exposure through integration with the broader 247 community, right? Is that visibility not the main draw/benefit of the network?

 

[Rock]

But they lose the exposure through integration with the broader 247 community, right? Is that visibility not the main draw/benefit of the network?

I mean I don't know. People stumbling upon 247 recruit rankings and going oh does Carolina have a website? Does that drive enough traffic to IC?

IC is I believe the biggest team site on their network. Seems like they have enough of a user base that it'll keep attracting a crowd through Google search and word of mouth and stuff like that.

I don't know, I'm not a doctor, I just play one on TV.

 

[altmin]

Do you have any insight/can you offer how long IC is with 247 contractually? If Ben and whoever has the ability at some point, I don't understand why they stay under their umbrella. Get out, fix the forum software, take payments through a 3rd party app, etc.

I have no idea of the financial aspect. They are independent owners that have an agreement to operate in partnership with 247, but I don't know the details. As the biggest site they can throw their weight around a bit, but it has its limits as the lack of moderating tools I hoped for shows. I suspect things became harder when CBS became owners of 247.