Hubert Davis Catch-all - HUBERT OFFICIALLY OUT

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SnoopRob said:
I’m not convinced that Scheyer or HD were the best coaches over the last 5 years. Dook & UNC may be the best 2 programs, but that doesn’t mean those 2 were the best 2 coaches.
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Worth noting here that most ACC schools have made at least one coaching change in the past five years. I think these are the only schools who have had the same coach the last 5 years:
  • UNC (Hubert)
  • Clemson (Brownell)
  • Wake (Forbes)
  • VT (Young)
  • Pitt (Capel)
  • BC (Grant)
Of those guys, the only one you could remotely argue has been a better coach than Hubert is Brownell, and his overall results significantly lag Hubert's. Most of them have been just plain bad. The conference has really been experiencing a near-total dearth of competent coaching over the last few years; luckily that appears to be turning around.
 
CFordUNC said:
I’ve been giving more thought to the coaching candidates this morning and how TJ Otzelberger is apparently the sexy candidate du jour (that is outside of the obvious “grand slam” tier that would be comprised of Brad Stevens, Dusty May, or Tommy Lloyd). I would personally besatisfied with TJO because I followed college basketball closely and feel like he is legitimately a very strong X’s and O’s coach and system-installer. But I do have concern that he would not be flashy enough for a lot of our fans because he would not attract the same kind of attention and media adulation that Duke does. I’m also not necessarily sure how well he would recruit to UNC juxtaposed against Duke, but in today’s current climate recruiting ability is not really that much of a concern as much as financial resource availability.

I actually think that TJO would be very similar to how Tony Bennett was at UVA- not at all flashy, didn’t seek the spotlight or the limelight, had a specific system and style to which he recruited and coached without deviation but one without much fanfare. But I am concerned a little bit that if it did not render Final Fours, immediate head to head wins against Duke, and legitimate national championship contention almost right away, that many fans would sour.
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TJ Otzelberger has been head coach at Iowa State for five years. They won 2 games total the year before he became head coach. In his five years they have been to the NCAA tournament each year with progressively 11-6-2-3-2 seeds in the tourney. They have lost once (2023) in the first round. I heard Bobby Lutz on Charlotte sportstalk radio today say Iowa State has $8.5 million in NIL funds for their men's basketball program to recruit players to Ames, IA.


That’s a VERY good hire.
 
KevinStrickland said:
TJ Otzelberger has been head coach at Iowa State for five years. They won 2 games total the year before he became head coach. In his five years they have been to the NCAA tournament each year with progressively 11-6-2-3-2 seeds in the tourney. They have lost once (2023) in the first round. I heard Bobby Lutz on Charlotte sportstalk radio today say Iowa State has $8.5 million in NIL funds for their men's basketball program to recruit players to Ames, IA.


That’s a VERY good hire.
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It would be.
 
duluoz said:
As competitive as these guys are, let’s see who wants to come in and pay sincere deference to Dean’s legacy and care about smoothing that over vs. who comes in and says F that, it’s cute and nice and all, but this is my program now.
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I don't think it's plausible that any coach we hire is going to come in and say anything like your second alternative there. Anyone who really wants the UNC job will understand that legacy and want to maintain it and add to it.
 
rodoheel said:
Of those guys, the only one you could remotely argue has been a better coach than Hubert is Brownell, and his overall results significantly lag Hubert's.
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It is highly misleading to compare coaching quality based simply on records without adjusting for the brand and resources.

Hubert landed Caleb Wilson because Hubert was the coach at UNC. Hubert would not have landed Caleb if he were the coach at Clemson. When a recruit comes on a visit to UNC, half the battle has already been won. Then the recruit sees the museum and the banners and the history and vibe, and the coach simply needs to be a closer.

That is a huge, huge advantage any UNC coach will have over any other ACC coach (excluding Duke) in building a team and winning games. You cannot fairly judge the quality of Hubert vs. Coach X simply by comparing wins and losses. At a minimum, you should be comparing how that coach performed at school X compared to the school's historical average. That would at least start to be an apples and apples comparison.
 
Calheel said:
It is highly misleading to compare coaching quality based simply on records without adjusting for the brand and resources.

Hubert landed Caleb Wilson because Hubert was the coach at UNC. Hubert would not have landed Caleb if he were the coach at Clemson. When a recruit comes on a visit to UNC, half the battle has already been won. Then the recruit sees the museum and the banners and the history and vibe, and the coach simply needs to be a closer.

That is a huge, huge advantage any UNC coach will have over any other ACC coach (excluding Duke) in building a team and winning games. You cannot fairly judge the quality of Hubert vs. Coach X simply by comparing wins and losses. At a minimum, you should be comparing how that coach performed at school X compared to the school's historical average. That would at least start to be an apples and apples comparison.
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I don't disagree with you. That's why I said you could argue Brownell has been a better coach than Hubert even though his results are worse. Even accounting for the difference in resources, though, those other 4 have been bad by the standards of their programs.
 
Calheel said:
It is highly misleading to compare coaching quality based simply on records without adjusting for the brand and resources.

Hubert landed Caleb Wilson because Hubert was the coach at UNC. Hubert would not have landed Caleb if he were the coach at Clemson. When a recruit comes on a visit to UNC, half the battle has already been won. Then the recruit sees the museum and the banners and the history and vibe, and the coach simply needs to be a closer.

That is a huge, huge advantage any UNC coach will have over any other ACC coach (excluding Duke) in building a team and winning games. You cannot fairly judge the quality of Hubert vs. Coach X simply by comparing wins and losses. At a minimum, you should be comparing how that coach performed at school X compared to the school's historical average. That would at least start to be an apples and apples comparison.
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This is true. See dook and Scheyer, yes JS has done great, but..
 
tallheel95 said:
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That is Leaky Black's mom. I still remember Carla screaming at the top of her lungs at the Clemson game, right by the TV mike. Leaky went through a lot at UNC, and I'm sure she has a lot of love for the relationship Hubert built with Leaky. She is the anti-Michelle Cadeau. And she is right that some people let their fandom override their humanity -- although I suspect it is all a bit more personal for her for good reason.
 
rodoheel said:
That message should really just be about how we treat humans, period. it's not unique to coaching, The internet has badly warped, for the worse, the things we are willing to publicly say about people we don't know.
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True, but this community does not need to a contributor.
 
rodoheel said:
I don't think it's plausible that any coach we hire is going to come in and say anything like your second alternative there. Anyone who really wants the UNC job will understand that legacy and want to maintain it and add to it.
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Even though Matt Doherty basically did that very thing?

Anyway that’s the difference, IMO you vastly underestimate that possibility. And in your opinion it’s not plausible, and I overestimate the possibility. Even though it’s basically already happened.
 
duluoz said:
Even though Matt Doherty basically did that very thing?

Anyway that’s the difference, IMO you vastly underestimate that possibility. And in your opinion it’s not plausible, and I overestimate the possibility. Even though it’s basically already happened.
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By a Dean Smith guy, no less.

I think the point here is that you should consider character in making a coaching hire and not exclusively focus on winning. Of course, character alone is not enough, but it should be a required element for the job.
 
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