Hubert Davis Catch-all - HUBERT OFFICIALLY OUT

[heelinhell]

TJO is squarely in the home run tier, IMO.

Jon Scheyer isn't "flashy" either. We don't need a coach to be a showman. The winning and the talent are what will bring the attention and adulation.

I would be happy if TJO decided to pick up his family ,leave a program he made his own, and move to UNC. I don't see that happening but we shall see.

 

[SnoopRob]

Assuming he communicated with them before he left the arena that's not an extreme amount of time. There was the trip home, time to sleep, eat, be with family. It's not like he disappeared for several days.

Maybe he needed a minute to decompress and pull himself together? There seems to be a desire to frame Hubert as a villain here.

I mean they gave the guy a homework assignment before firing him.

Going dark on your staff (and, presumably, players) for nearly 24 hours when rumors are publicly swirling about the future of your job is a failure.

But why it happened is unknown and would be interesting to know.

 

[CFordUNC]

TJO is squarely in the home run tier, IMO.

Jon Scheyer isn't "flashy" either. We don't need a coach to be a showman. The winning and the talent are what will bring the attention and adulation.

I would personally say more like a double or a triple, but obviously still very solid and would be a strong hire. I would definitely be satisfied. I’m just saying that he’s not the big “name” of a Brad Stevens or a Billy Donovan or even a Tommy Lloyd or Dusty May, and for some UNC fans that may matter. It shouldn’t, and obviously if he were to win at the highest level, it almost certainly wouldn’t. But I think it would matter for some people upfront.

I actually think the comparison to Tony Bennett is a good one. I don’t know about anyone else so I don’t want to speak for others, but I would absolutely take the run that UVA had under Tony Bennett from 2014-2019 out of UNC over the next half decade.

 

[CFordUNC]

Thought this was interesting. Had not really thought about it this way. We’ll see if UNC becomes the exception!

 

[4thgenheel]

This is a cost that many here have minimized and glossed over. But we’re all going to find out the hard way.

i upvoted super's post that you quoted because i agree with the sentiment but what exactly are we going to "find out the hard way?"

the harrison barnes recruitment was 15 years ago. if nothing else, the simple passage of father time is eliminating some of these connections and other special things.

 

[Calheel]

Thought this was interesting. Had not really thought about it this way. We’ll see if UNC becomes the exception!

Which goes to show that when hiring a coach, it is far more important to get the right coach than to win the coach hiring press conference.

UCLA fans thought they hit the head coach lotto when they hired Chip Kelly. He is now the offensive coordinator of Northwestern.

 

[SnoopRob]

Thought this was interesting. Had not really thought about it this way. We’ll see if UNC becomes the exception!

It has been interesting that even the blue bloods have recently gone the alum/assistant route when making new hires.

I'm not sure what that tells us, but it is a data point that I hope the UNC AD has considered when considering a change.

 

[CFordUNC]

Assuming this isn't Mushmouth Goodman making this up, what an incredibly cunty thing for another ACC coach to say. Sure, the sentiment is accurate that if you're competing against UNC you'd probably rather it be against Hubert Davis than say, Dusty May, but still a really shitty thing to say about a former coaching fraternity colleague.

Also, unless that coach quoted is Jon Scheyer- which it isn't- then that coach can STFU because he didn't have a Final Four, an ACC title, and a 1 seed at any point in the last 5 years like Hubert Davis did.

 

[rodoheel]

I would personally say more like a double or a triple, but obviously still very solid and would be a strong hire. I would definitely be satisfied. I’m just saying that he’s not the big “name” of a Brad Stevens or a Billy Donovan or even a Tommy Lloyd or Dusty May, and for some UNC fans that may matter. It shouldn’t, and obviously if he were to win at the highest level, it almost certainly wouldn’t. But I think it would matter for some people upfront.

I actually think the comparison to Tony Bennett is a good one. I don’t know about anyone else so I don’t want to speak for others, but I would absolutely take the run that UVA had under Tony Bennett from 2014-2019 out UNC over the next half decade.

I think the comparison to Bennett makes some sense. But I don't see TJO as any less of a "name" hire than May or Lloyd. All those guys would be good hires of some of the best current coaches in college bball. But personally I think the chances that we get any of them are probably under 50%. They all have good reason to be happy where they are.

You really think anyone wouldn't take Bennett's 5-year run ending in 2019? I mean I could do without the blowout loss to a 16 seed, but other than that, yeah, seems like an easy decision. Bennett's style did seem to make his teams susceptible to March upsets, but I don't have that concern about TJO.

 

[rodoheel]

Thought this was interesting. Had not really thought about it this way. We’ll see if UNC becomes the exception!

This sort of emphasizes the point I made about TJO being a home run. I don't think people appreciate how rare it is for a coach succeeding at that level to voluntarily move. TJO's resume right now is roughly comparable than Bill Self's when he went to Kansas. Doesn't mean he would be as successful as Self, but that's the tier of hire we're talking about here.

 

[superrific]

i upvoted super's post that you quoted because i agree with the sentiment but what exactly are we going to "find out the hard way?"

the harrison barnes recruitment was 15 years ago. if nothing else, the simple passage of father time is eliminating some of these connections and other special things.

Yeah, this isn't something we're going to "find out." It's too gradual. It's already been happening to some degree. I think of it like a shoreline disappearing. You can't see it happening, and it might not necessarily have any short-term adverse effects.

 

[Bigs23]

Assuming this isn't Mushmouth Goodman making this up, what an incredibly cunty thing for another ACC coach to say. Sure, the sentiment is accurate that if you're competing against UNC you'd probably rather it be against Hubert Davis than say, Dusty May, but still a really shitty thing to say about a former coaching fraternity colleague.

Also, unless that coach quoted is Jon Scheyer- which it isn't- then that coach can STFU because he didn't have a Final Four, an ACC title, and a 1 seed at any point in the last 5 years like Hubert Davis did.

Sounds like a few of the regulars here.

 

[farce©]

I don't understand the Tony Bennett comparison. Bennett played boring, low scoring basketball at UVa. Iowa State averaged 82.5 PPG (rank #31....UNC ranked #73 at 79.7 PPG). They play a balanced offense and put up a lot of 3s. They beat Kentucky last weekend without their best player Joshua Jefferson. who sprained an ankle in round 1. The game was even at halftime, they came out in the second half pressing and creating turnovers (a coaching adjustment) and won going away by 19. They played good defense and the players appeared to know what they were doing offensively. Not a lot of standing around dribbling, they appeared to know what to do with the ball when they had it.

ISU plays our old friend Rick Barnes this Friday night at 10. Tennessee is playing well right now so it should be a good test, depending on Jefferson's ankle. Reports are guardedly optimistic he can play this weekend.

 

[4thgenheel]

Sounds like a few of the regulars here.

 

[SnoopRob]

I’ve been giving more thought to the coaching candidates this morning and how TJ Otzelberger is apparently the sexy candidate du jour (that is outside of the obvious “grand slam” tier that would be comprised of Brad Stevens, Dusty May, or Tommy Lloyd). I would personally besatisfied with TJO because I followed college basketball closely and feel like he is legitimately a very strong X’s and O’s coach and system-installer. But I do have concern that he would not be flashy enough for a lot of our fans because he would not attract the same kind of attention and media adulation that Duke does. I’m also not necessarily sure how well he would recruit to UNC juxtaposed against Duke, but in today’s current climate recruiting ability is not really that much of a concern as much as financial resource availability.

I actually think that TJO would be very similar to how Tony Bennett was at UVA- not at all flashy, didn’t seek the spotlight or the limelight, had a specific system and style to which he recruited and coached without deviation but one without much fanfare. But I am concerned a little bit that if it did not render Final Fours, immediate head to head wins against Duke, and legitimate national championship contention almost right away, that many fans would sour.

TJO is my first choice for the position.

I do not necessarily think he is the absolute best coach on our list right now. But I think the difference between him and the others is pretty minimal.

I do have a few concerns if he's up to the limelight of a blue blood program. Based on my (limited) observations of him, I think he is, but it's certainly a pertinent question. I also worry a little about the slower pace his teams tend to play at, but that's just me being biased toward uptempo systems.

The reason he's my first choice, though, is because i think he's the best positioned of everyone on our list to come to Chapel Hill and marry the skills it takes to win in the 2020s (and beyond) with the Carolina Way/Family. He's beloved at Iowa State not just for wins and loses, but he's really gotten involved in the greater Ames, Iowa community and had his players get involved, as well as involvement in national orgs that use his status and basketball to try to make a difference for others. I see a guy who, if willing to leave Iowa State, would very likely make every effort to understand, cherish, and nurture the Carolina Way/Family into the future as part of the job of being HC at Carolina.

I also think he's a program builder and a guy who does "more with less" by getting the most out of his players and putting them in a great position to individually succeed within team success, which is a skill I admire and think would be super useful in our HC role.

 

[superrific]

You can have those links to the history and the past without having them specifically through the head coach. There will still be people involved with UNC basketball who have those links back to the program history. I hope a new coach will retain at least one UNC alum as an assistant. I hope a new UNC coach will come in with a reverence for the history and tradition of the program and a desire to be a part of that history, not displace it. I hope former players will continue to be welcomed back as guests of the program, for summer pickup, etc.

Is it possible that a new coach could not do some of those things, and we truly could lose the feel of connection to the past? Sure, it's possible. But it's not a given, either, like some people seem to be treating it.

I don't think so. How long was David Thompson relevant for NCSU? The programs is viewed as the coach primarily. But it's also true that the 80s and 90s were long ago even with the coaching lineage. I mean, do kids these days even know what Vinsanity was?

So this is not a FAFO situation. It's just something we need to accept and it might not be all that significant anyway.

 

[Calheel]

Assuming this isn't Mushmouth Goodman making this up, what an incredibly cunty thing for another ACC coach to say. Sure, the sentiment is accurate that if you're competing against UNC you'd probably rather it be against Hubert Davis than say, Dusty May, but still a really shitty thing to say about a former coaching fraternity colleague.

Also, unless that coach quoted is Jon Scheyer- which it isn't- then that coach can STFU because he didn't have a Final Four, an ACC title, and a 1 seed at any point in the last 5 years like Hubert Davis did.

Our own fans repeatedly said the same thing when discussing the fans/coaches of other schools.

Even on this board we claimed Duke fans were pro-Hubert for this reason.

 

[4thgenheel]

I don't understand the Tony Bennett comparison. Bennett played boring, low scoring basketball at UVa. Iowa State averaged 82.5 PPG (rank #31....UNC ranked #73 at 79.7 PPG). They play a balanced offense and put up a lot of 3s. They beat Kentucky last weekend without their best player Joshua Jefferson. who sprained an ankle in round 1. The game was even at halftime, they came out in the second half pressing and creating turnovers (a coaching adjustment) and won going away by 19. They played good defense and the players appeared to know what they were doing offensively. Not a lot of standing around dribbling, they appeared to know what to do with the ball when they had it.

ISU plays our old friend Rick Barnes this Friday night at 10. Tennessee is playing well right now so it should be a good test, depending on Jefferson's ankle. Reports are guardedly optimistic he can play this weekend.

it's a comparison of their coaching quality not playing styles.

 

[Bigs23]

I tried and then they came to pile on the guy.

 

[Calheel]

TJO is my first choice for the position.

I do not necessarily think he is the absolute best coach on our list right now. But I think the difference between him and the others is pretty minimal.

I do have a few concerns if he's up to the limelight of a blue blood program. Based on my (limited) observations of him, I think he is, but it's certainly a pertinent question. I also worry a little about the slower pace his teams tend to play at, but that's just me being biased toward uptempo systems.

The reason he's my first choice, though, is because i think he's the best positioned of everyone on our list to come to Chapel Hill and marry the skills it takes to win in the 2020s (and beyond) with the Carolina Way/Family. He's beloved at Iowa State not just for wins and loses, but he's really gotten involved in the greater Ames, Iowa community and had his players get involved, as well as involvement in national orgs that use his status and basketball to try to make a difference for others. I see a guy who, if willing to leave Iowa State, would very likely make every effort to understand, cherish, and nurture the Carolina Way/Family into the future as part of the job of being HC at Carolina.

I also think he's a program builder and a guy who does "more with less" by getting the most out of his players and putting them in a great position to individually succeed within team success, which is a skill I admire and think would be super useful in our HC role.

Ideally, we would get a coach who can do more with more.