Hubert Davis Catch-all - HUBERT OFFICIALLY OUT

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duluoz said:
Even though Matt Doherty basically did that very thing?

Anyway that’s the difference, IMO you vastly underestimate that possibility. And in your opinion it’s not plausible, and I overestimate the possibility. Even though it’s basically already happened.
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I'm a little confused. I have interpreted you as saying that if we fire Hubert and go outside the family, the UNC legacy/family as we know it is over. If your example of the bad thing you fear happening is someone who was actually INSIDE the UNC family, why are you so concerned that hiring someone from OUTSIDE the family is what we should be most worried about? Doesn't that whole thing just exemplify that whether someone is "part of the family" or not is not determinative of whether or how they will uphold UNC's legacy?

Maybe I'm putting too much faith in the people who will run the search, and I probably shouldn't, but I think a big part of the interview process will focus on the UNC Bball legacy and what each coach understands about it and thinks should be done to honor it. And if we get it wrong, we'll try again. Just like three years after Doherty, we got Roy. So clearly that misstep didn't, like, destroy everything special about UNC forever, like you say you're worried about now.

The bottom line is that keeping Hubert clearly wasn't maintaining UNC's legacy. So we have to try to hire someone who will. We have no guarantee of success, but I also don't see what other choice we have.
 
superrific said:
He might have not known formally, but come on -- he knew the same way everyone here knew. The way that loss went down made it impossible for him to stay. He must have known that, even if it wasn't consciously spelled out.
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Maybe, but it seems, again from their reporting, he did not think it was that dire. Just going by their reporting.
 
rodoheel said:
That message should really just be about how we treat humans, period. it's not unique to coaching, The internet has badly warped, for the worse, the things we are willing to publicly say about people we don't know.
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What you say is true, but this is a message providing perspective from the parent of a former player who was coached by HD. It's very relevant and doesn't need to "be about" anything else. It's a reminder that we're talking about real people and we should think about that when we discuss this topic.
 
KevinStrickland said:
TJ Otzelberger has been head coach at Iowa State for five years. They won 2 games total the year before he became head coach. In his five years they have been to the NCAA tournament each year with progressively 11-6-2-3-2 seeds in the tourney. They have lost once (2023) in the first round. I heard Bobby Lutz on Charlotte sportstalk radio today say Iowa State has $8.5 million in NIL funds for their men's basketball program to recruit players to Ames, IA.


That’s a VERY good hire.
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My opinion on this has less than zero value, but I think Otzelberger would be the best choice. He is good on detail and better on game adjustments, but on an extremely high level with recruiting and developing talent. The other side of that is maybe it's somewhat random chance, but Tamin Lipsey and Milan Momcilovic have become sensational college players under Otzelberger, and vastly better than many former McDonald's All Americans, with Momcilovic for three years now one of the finest 3 point shooters the college game has ever seen.

I think Otzelberger would be Scheyer's worst possible nightmare.

Lloyd is good, but has been working with vastly better talent and depth of talent.

Donovan and Stevens always struck me as farcical notions, completely disconnected from current NIL college basketball.
 
Peppers49 said:
Again, Norlander is arguably the most well sourced CBB reporter out there. I 100% put more stock into this article than vague comments from anonymous insiders on IC.
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You can blow Norlander and his 'anonymous' source all you want. I'll trust IC's main source b/c I know him very well and he is as close as one can get to the UNC athletic department. I'm not Brad Stevens and have nary a clue what's in his brain. I do know 100% that he reached out to UNC and showed interest. Interest is good enough for me b/c these things are very fluid.
 
an0maly said:
My opinion on this has less than zero value, but I think Otzelberger would be the best choice. He is good on detail and better on game adjustments, but on an extremely high level with recruiting and developing talent. The other side of that is maybe it's somewhat random chance, but Tamin Lipsey and Milan Momcilovic have become sensational college players under Otzelberger, and vastly better than many former McDonald's All Americans, with Momcilovic for three years now one of the finest 3 point shooters the college game has ever seen.

I think Otzelberger would be Scheyer's worst possible nightmare.

Lloyd is good, but has been working with vastly better talent and depth of talent.

Donovan and Stevens always struck me as farcical notions, completely disconnected from current NIL college basketball.
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I think it’s a great hire. I’m not sure about nightmare. I’m one of the few that believe a strong carolina makes a strong Duke.
 
rodoheel said:
I'm a little confused. I have interpreted you as saying that if we fire Hubert and go outside the family, the UNC legacy/family as we know it is over. If your example of the bad thing you fear happening is someone who was actually INSIDE the UNC family, why are you so concerned that hiring someone from OUTSIDE the family is what we should be most worried about? Doesn't that whole thing just exemplify that whether someone is "part of the family" or not is not determinative of whether or how they will uphold UNC's legacy?

Maybe I'm putting too much faith in the people who will run the search, and I probably shouldn't, but I think a big part of the interview process will focus on the UNC Bball legacy and what each coach understands about it and thinks should be done to honor it. And if we get it wrong, we'll try again. Just like three years after Doherty, we got Roy. So clearly that misstep didn't, like, destroy everything special about UNC forever, like you say you're worried about now.

The bottom line is that keeping Hubert clearly wasn't maintaining UNC's legacy. So we have to try to hire someone who will. We have no guarantee of success, but I also don't see what other choice we have.
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I think you may be putting too much faith in the people who will run the search, but I hope not.

The misstep when it came to Doherty was because Roy decided not to come to UNC as Dean had planned.

I won't live long enough to see it, but I hope UNC grads in the future will revere our Joe Blow coach as I did Dean Smith for continuing the legacy of UNC basketball. Wouldn't it be great if our future arena were to be named the Joe Blow Dome ?
 
PTOHeel said:
What you say is true, but this is a message providing perspective from the parent of a former player who was coached by HD. It's very relevant and doesn't need to "be about" anything else. It's a reminder that we're talking about real people and we should think about that when we discuss this topic.
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I didn't mean to dispute that. I'm saying we should all be always remembering that advice when we talk about anyone. It’s great advice for talking about not just coaches, but everyone and every topic.
 
rodoheel said:
I'm a little confused. I have interpreted you as saying that if we fire Hubert and go outside the family, the UNC legacy/family as we know it is over. If your example of the bad thing you fear happening is someone who was actually INSIDE the UNC family, why are you so concerned that hiring someone from OUTSIDE the family is what we should be most worried about? Doesn't that whole thing just exemplify that whether someone is "part of the family" or not is not determinative of whether or how they will uphold UNC's legacy?

Maybe I'm putting too much faith in the people who will run the search, and I probably shouldn't, but I think a big part of the interview process will focus on the UNC Bball legacy and what each coach understands about it and thinks should be done to honor it. And if we get it wrong, we'll try again. Just like three years after Doherty, we got Roy. So clearly that misstep didn't, like, destroy everything special about UNC forever, like you say you're worried about now.

The bottom line is that keeping Hubert clearly wasn't maintaining UNC's legacy. So we have to try to hire someone who will. We have no guarantee of success, but I also don't see what other choice we have.
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Yeah I’m not reading all that. I’m done debating this for now. Some of you clearly enjoy this, I don’t. I’ve said what I said, well more than enough to understand where I’m coming from. Take something from it or not, and have at it regardless.
 
Lloyd, May, TJ Otz, Donovon in that order. Happy with any, but I think the first 3 being current college coaches of programs in really good shape set them above Billy D.

If we get beyond those I'm still confident with Oats, McCollum, Byington, but they'd have more to prove, which may not be a bad thing.
 
lightbluenc said:
Lloyd, May, TJ Otz, Donovon in that order. Happy with any, but I think the first 3 being current college coaches of programs in really good shape set them above Billy D.

If we get beyond those I'm still confident with Oats, McCollum, Byington, but they'd have more to prove, which may not be a bad thing.
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Oats is a douchebag, but his resume (especially in the tourney) is as strong/stronger than Lloyd/May/TJO.
 
lightbluenc said:
Lloyd, May, TJ Otz, Donovon in that order. Happy with any, but I think the first 3 being current college coaches of programs in really good shape set them above Billy D.

If we get beyond those I'm still confident with Oats, McCollum, Byington, but they'd have more to prove, which may not be a bad thing.
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I think only Donovan might be interested in coming to UNC. I can see the other 3 using our interest as leverage to boost their salary and other perks.

I don't think Donovan has coached in college since 2015. Will he be able to navigate the brave new world of OAD, NIL, and transfer portals ?
 
Meatloaf=Steak said:
Stevens is far from out unless you trust CBS so called sources more than UNC sources. Doesnt mean it will happen, but he is still 100% in play.
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IC is going to update their coaching board later today, so we should know if their intel matches Norlander then.
 
Calheel said:
It is highly misleading to compare coaching quality based simply on records without adjusting for the brand and resources.

Hubert landed Caleb Wilson because Hubert was the coach at UNC. Hubert would not have landed Caleb if he were the coach at Clemson. When a recruit comes on a visit to UNC, half the battle has already been won. Then the recruit sees the museum and the banners and the history and vibe, and the coach simply needs to be a closer.

That is a huge, huge advantage any UNC coach will have over any other ACC coach (excluding Duke) in building a team and winning games. You cannot fairly judge the quality of Hubert vs. Coach X simply by comparing wins and losses. At a minimum, you should be comparing how that coach performed at school X compared to the school's historical average. That would at least start to be an apples and apples comparison.
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If you make that argument though, you can't make the argument that he didn't recruit well. IE - if he doesn't get credit for recruiting success, he doesn't get blame for recruiting failure.
 
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