Hubert Davis Catch-all

[finesse]

Has everyone forgotten that Hubert was not only one of them but a well respected one of them. They sure seem to when they blow off the media reaction if and when he's fired. Is there some doubt whose side the media are going to be on? There's a lot of the sports world that remember him fondly and actually kind of resent UNC's history.

 

[CFordUNC]

We're on pace for a 24-7 regular season that features wins over a good Kansas team, a solid Kentucky team on the road in a place that is hard for any road team to win, a really dang good Virginia team on the road in a place that is also hard for any road team to win, an elite Duke team, and a pretty darn good Louisville team. We admittedly should not have gone 0-2 on our West Coast trip, and I wish we'd seen more competitive fire in the game in Raleigh even being down our two best players, but in the post-Dean Smith era, outside of that ultra elite run that Roy had in 2005-2009 and the 2016-2018 burst, this regular season is pretty darn solid even by Carolina's historically lofty standards. Three of our 6 current losses are in games where we didn't have our best players available (Trimble vs. MSU, Caleb vs. Miami, and Caleb/Henri vs. NCSU). We've had some really good wins when fully healthy. We have a great chance to finish undefeated in the Smith Center for only the fifth time in the building's history.

 

[heelinhell]

1. I agree on good wins, what about Stanford/Cal/SMU
2. Unless he wins the chip, how can this year be better than then '22 or '24?

In Roy's last 8 seasons he finished 3 seasons unranked, 3 seasons ranked in the top 20, went to 2 FFs and won the national championship.

Beat VT and Clemson @ home and finish the regular season 24-7. That would be a better record than Roy had in 5 of his last 8 seasons. We are undefeated at home. Let's win those last two games which will be a challenge not having our best player on the court,, but we have met the challenge so far

 

[heelinhell]

We're on pace for a 24-7 regular season that features wins over a good Kansas team, a solid Kentucky team on the road in a place that is hard for any road team to win, a really dang good Virginia team on the road in a place that is also hard for any road team to win, an elite Duke team, and a pretty darn good Louisville team. We admittedly should not have gone 0-2 on our West Coast trip, and I wish we'd seen more competitive fire in the game in Raleigh even being down our two best players, but in the post-Dean Smith era, outside of that ultra elite run that Roy had in 2005-2009 and the 2016-2018 burst, this regular season is pretty darn solid even by Carolina's historically lofty standards. Three of our 6 current losses are in games where we didn't have our best players available (Trimble vs. MSU, Caleb vs. Miami, and Caleb/Henri vs. NCSU). We've had some really good wins when fully healthy. We have a great chance to finish undefeated in the Smith Center for only the fifth time in the building's history.

You beat me to it

It took me 20 minutes to research and finish my post

 

[Icky Mettle]

We're on pace for a 24-7 regular season that features wins over a good Kansas team, a solid Kentucky team on the road in a place that is hard for any road team to win, a really dang good Virginia team on the road in a place that is also hard for any road team to win, an elite Duke team, and a pretty darn good Louisville team. We admittedly should not have gone 0-2 on our West Coast trip, and I wish we'd seen more competitive fire in the game in Raleigh even being down our two best players, but in the post-Dean Smith era, outside of that ultra elite run that Roy had in 2005-2009 and the 2016-2018 burst, this regular season is pretty darn solid even by Carolina's historically lofty standards. Three of our 6 current losses are in games where we didn't have our best players available (Trimble vs. MSU, Caleb vs. Miami, and Caleb/Henri vs. NCSU). We've had some really good wins when fully healthy. We have a great chance to finish undefeated in the Smith Center for only the fifth time in the building's history.

Good post. I think the only real blemish on this season is going 0-2 in California; perhaps going 0-3 vs. those CA teams and SMU. If we go 2-1 in those games, I think it turns a fairly good season thus far (by UNC basketball standards) into a VERY good season thus far (by any standard).

 

[heelinhell]

Good post. I think the only real blemish on this season is going 0-2 in California; perhaps going 0-3 vs. those CA teams and SMU. If we go 2-1 in those games, I think it turns a fairly good season thus far (by UNC basketball standards) into a VERY good season thus far (by any standard).

What would have been really good is if the ACC had not invited those teams into the ACC in the first place.

 

[stankeylegjones]

What a crock, fantasy dreamland stuff.

If or when HD goes, and nobody from Dean’s/Roy’s tree is hired, which seems unlikely now (all the Wes advocates are awfully quiet about that lately btw!), the legacy is over. There will be an embarrassing search for a new coach that will turn up someone well down the wishlist, someone who most fans have barely even heard of. That will be the result of your so-called “thorough search!” He will have middling results and crumble under the pressure of the spoiled entitled fans like you who salivated for a change from HD only a few years earlier, thinking you could have your cake and eat it too.

In this bullshit version of the NCAA where all bonds with players are torn apart each season just as soon as they were even beginning to form, Hubert is currently the only hope of retaining what I love about college hoops and UNC. I wouldn’t trade that for the distant hope of a few more wins and an extra weekend in the tourney every now and again, at best. And at worst, worse results and a very public spiral, and one not tied to the ballast of Dean and Roy to steady it. The only hope would be if after this probable disaster, someone like Marcus Paige were ready for a shot.

But as it stands, you guys seem to have absolutely no idea what you’re wishing for. Head in the clouds kind of expectations and demands. Expecting not only for top candidates to be jumping at the chance (we already got an indication last time around that the job wasn’t as hot a ticket as you guys seem to think), but also to come in and compete for national titles every year, AND to slide right into the Carolina Way easy peasy… as if a guy like Nate Oates even knows what the F that is.

All because HD isn’t up to “standards.”This stuff is delusional.

I think you’re taking a real fear, losing what makes Carolina special, and stretching it into a conclusion that just doesn’t hold up. Saying that moving on from Hubert Davis would “end” what Dean Smith started and Roy Williams carried forward assumes the program’s values are tied to a “genealogy” chart rather than to principles. What we call Carolina Basketball really did take shape under Dean. It meant success on the court, integrity and player development off it, and representing the university the right way. Those ideals are bigger than any one coaching line.

And part of honoring that legacy is being honest about all of its pillars. Success on the court was not optional under Dean. It was a central expectation. Competing for conference titles, making deep tournament runs, and maintaining a national standard were part of the foundation. Acknowledging that is not entitlement. It is recognizing the full standard he set.

Every person who became part of the so called “family” was, at one point, an outsider. The tree grew because people were brought in who embodied the values, not because they shared “DNA” with the bench. Acting like the line must remain unbroken ignores the very history you are trying to protect.

It also feels inconsistent to tell everyone they need to accept change in the modern game, NIL, transfers, roster turnover, and shifting expectations, while declaring that coaching lineage is the one sacred area where change equals collapse. If change is the reality everywhere else, why is this the one place we are supposed to pretend time stopped?

No one is arguing that Carolina should abandon its standards. It is the opposite. Wanting the program to live up to its historical expectations, success on the court and integrity off it, is not entitlement. That standard is part of the legacy. When the search for a new coach happens, the job is not to find a clone, someone who’s “lineage” can be traced back to Coach Smith. It is to find someone who upholds those principles so the legacy continues to grow instead of sitting frozen in place.

Carolina Basketball, as Dean defined it, was never meant to be fragile. It was never meant to settle.

 

[CRHeel94]

I don't understand this "replace 5 starters" bit. They had top 10 recruits sitting on the bench last year. What we are seeing is mostly just "next man up," which is sort of how all sports operate. And then also adding the national player of the year or at the very least a 1st team AA. I don't see that as terribly impressive.

Getting that level of cohesion when you have so much turnover is not easy, even with all that talent on hand. I would have expected a worse record than what they had last year. Heck, they expected a worse year this year.

 

[heelinhell]

What a crock, fantasy dreamland stuff.

If or when HD goes, and nobody from Dean’s/Roy’s tree is hired, which seems unlikely now (all the Wes advocates are awfully quiet about that lately btw!), the legacy is over. There will be an embarrassing search for a new coach that will turn up someone well down the wishlist, someone who most fans have barely even heard of. That will be the result of your so-called “thorough search!” He will have middling results and crumble under the pressure of the spoiled entitled fans like you who salivated for a change from HD only a few years earlier, thinking you could have your cake and eat it too.

In this bullshit version of the NCAA where all bonds with players are torn apart each season just as soon as they were even beginning to form, Hubert is currently the only hope of retaining what I love about college hoops and UNC. I wouldn’t trade that for the distant hope of a few more wins and an extra weekend in the tourney every now and again, at best. And at worst, worse results and a very public spiral, and one not tied to the ballast of Dean and Roy to steady it. The only hope would be if after this probable disaster, someone like Marcus Paige were ready for a shot.

But as it stands, you guys seem to have absolutely no idea what you’re wishing for. Head in the clouds kind of expectations and demands. Expecting not only for top candidates to be jumping at the chance (we already got an indication last time around that the job wasn’t as hot a ticket as you guys seem to think), but also to come in and compete for national titles every year, AND to slide right into the Carolina Way easy peasy… as if a guy like Nate Oates even knows what the F that is.

All because HD isn’t up to “standards.”This stuff is delusional.

Your post reminds me of the Tar Pitters. Let's fire Mack Brown because he didn't go undefeated and compete for national championships every year and bring in Uncle Bill who will turn this program around winning 13 games/yr and playing for the national championship.

Let's fire Coach Davis and get an outside the family coach that will immediately begin winning 30 games/yr and a national championship every 2 years or so

 

[CRHeel94]

I really wish I could say more about my insights but my NDA doesn't expire until May '27.

Since its public knowledge, I will make one observation. Scheyer has gone away from the former player staff that Coach K adopted late in his tenure; it was a very insular staff at the beginning but he has branched out and added guys that had little to no connection to Duke.

 

[kidryancorn]

Your post reminds me of the Tar Pitters. Let's fire Mack Brown because he didn't go undefeated and compete for national championships every year and bring in Uncle Bill who will turn this program around winning 13 games/yr and playing for the national championship.

Let's fire Coach Davis and get an outside the family coach that will immediately begin winning 30 games/yr and a national championship every 2 years or so

Mack was fired way too late and it was obvious he needed to go ...not sure the point you're trying to make there.

 

[thebruinbleedstarheelblue]

In Roy's last 8 seasons he finished 3 seasons unranked, 3 seasons ranked in the top 20, went to 2 FFs and won the national championship.

Beat VT and Clemson @ home and finish the regular season 24-7. That would be a better record than Roy had in 5 of his last 8 seasons. We are undefeated at home. Let's win those last two games which will be a challenge not having our best player on the court,, but we have met the challenge so far

This year is an uptick from last Season, which I think was a disaster.

Roy admittedly did tail off at the end of a great, Hall of Fame career that included three national championships and sustained success. If this year is the uptick, you will notice that the highs keep getting lower.

If his first season was the first high season(bubble to Natty beauty), then the third season had a great regular season with a disappointing post-season.

This one will be a pretty good regular season. Depending on where we land in the ACC, we'll see about the post-season, but I don't have expectations that it's better than this first season.

Therefore, the bridge seasons, which would be seasons two, which was a complete disaster, and last year, which was also a failure. Then we have to look at what he does next year. Caleb Wilson ain't walking through that door...probably not Henri either.

I do think he'll be back, but the highest keep getting lower and the lows higher... the end of the roller coaster ride to mediocrity and we're already seeing the lower expectations to go along with that.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

Good post. I think the only real blemish on this season is going 0-2 in California; perhaps going 0-3 vs. those CA teams and SMU. If we go 2-1 in those games, I think it turns a fairly good season thus far (by UNC basketball standards) into a VERY good season thus far (by any standard).

But the way we lost those three games, in what has become classic Hubert style, is what keeps the nagging doubts from going away. That said I agree with @CFordUNC and @heelinhell .

 

[finesse]

Yes, that includes the tail end of Roy's years but that is the base and the perception of a declining program under a Hall of Fame coach that Hubert had to build on. Yet, in these conversations, that start is considered the same as taking over a Final Four program in the midst of an amazing run of recruiting. This , after being paraded around as heir apparent on a celebratory tour around the league. To my mind, that answers a lot of questions about fan, media and recruit buy in with each program.

No, Hubert hasn't been my dream but I still think he's getting better and should continue as coach. I just wish I personally liked him better. Pure bias but true.

 

[Icky Mettle]

But the way we lost those three games, in what has become classic Hubert style, is what keeps the nagging doubts from going away. That said I agree with @CFordUNC and @heelinhell .

Yeah, I do think there are two things at play: (1) the results and (2) the journey to get to those results. And I definitely agree that there are parts of the journey that may justifiably raise concerns.