Hubert Davis Catch-all

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HD will not resign. I don’t know anything. But he will never even get fired anyway. They’ll ask him to resign.
 
Calheel said:
And won a national championship.

And amazingly, Kentucky was still able to recruit after firing its first black coach when that was still a somewhat unusual thing.
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Kentucky is different from UNC.

In no particular order:
  • Kentucky pays more than UNC has paid
  • Just win at UK; the moneyed donors and the rabid fans matter more than player alums or connections to the program
  • I doubt the UK base or donors gave a shit about Tubby’s departure; more were likely pissed he’d been hired.
  • Those UK wallets stayed full and open.
 
Rock said:
HD will not resign. I don’t know anything. But he will never even get fired anyway. They’ll ask him to resign.
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Wait, can you give this more detail? Because what you've presented is an endless loop where HD can give himself a lifetime contract.
 
CRHeel94 said:
Not an anti Hubert...just my two cents.

The hiring/firing decision of HD should be on the merits of the case: I wouldn't bring the political leadership of the UNC system or race into the decision. That he's a beloved alum and the handpicked successor to the Carolina Way has given him some leeway. At the end of the day the expectations to perform at a level expected of a blue blood will drive the decision. While I wouldn't be as harsh as the anti-HD crowd, I'm realistic that HD has not reached that expected level. It's not really a surprise; we put in a first-time HC into a pressure-cooker environment amidst a sea change in college basketball.

From what Ive heard, I still think HD would fall on his sword than get fired.
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For what it’s worth I saw someone on the IC staff the other day say that they get the sense that if the program is in a position where they’re having to make a tough call about Hubert at the end of the season, that it might be intertwined with the new arena/renovate debate. The gist of it was that if push comes to shove those people might feel like they have to be careful about how much political capital they use to make big changes for the program and err on the side of not upsetting the apple cart.

It wouldn’t have to do with race or politics in the way that you mean necessarily, but in that scenario the decision still wouldn’t be made entirely on the merits of the case. To be clear that was just that person’s opinion (think it was Sherrel; can’t remember off the top of my head) but it makes sense and I could see it playing out that way.
 
Skeptical me says nothing ever gets done anywhere strictly on the merits of the case.

Sorry but the idea that this or fairness can be generally obtained drives me crazy. Even if you convince the people, you aren't going to convince the universe and I don't like your chances with the people.
 
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Play the politics whatever way that you want but those in charge of the fortunes and future of the University of North Carolina do not have the historical mission of the institution among their goals, rather they are engaged in attempting to change the university from what most of us here love into something different -- something that they will love.
 
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I understand that big decisions like this always have some political ramifications that need to be taken into consideration. Never suggested otherwise. Just sharing what I thought was an interesting perspective from someone who has a better pulse on this stuff than the average fan.

As to Don’s wider point, I detest what’s happening with the MAGA-fication of the university itself spearheaded by Roberts, and I think he badly mangled his first real test on the athletics front with the Belichick hire. I don’t really trust him to navigate a potential coaching change or the renovate/relocate decision well on the basketball side either. It’s a delicate situation.
 
Peppers49 said:
I understand that big decisions like this always have some political ramifications that need to be taken into consideration. Never suggested otherwise. Just sharing what I thought was an interesting perspective from someone who has a better pulse on this stuff than the average fan.

As to Don’s wider point, I detest what’s happening with the MAGA-fication of the university itself spearheaded by Roberts, and I think he badly mangled his first real test on the athletics front with the Belichick hire. I don’t really trust him to navigate a potential coaching change or the renovate/relocate decision well on the basketball side either. It’s a delicate situation.
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Are all the MAGAs on IC and/or 247 still all in on Roberts like they were right after the Belichick hire, when they heralded that as a sign that he’s a great leader who will get things done?
 
Peppers49 said:
I understand that big decisions like this always have some political ramifications that need to be taken into consideration. Never suggested otherwise. Just sharing what I thought was an interesting perspective from someone who has a better pulse on this stuff than the average fan.

As to Don’s wider point, I detest what’s happening with the MAGA-fication of the university itself spearheaded by Roberts, and I think he badly mangled his first real test on the athletics front with the Belichick hire. I don’t really trust him to navigate a potential coaching change or the renovate/relocate decision well on the basketball side either. It’s a delicate situation.
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Yea, Roberts is an incompetent MAGA asshole who is ruining the university. I think his mixed use CN gamble likely is about enriching friends more than anything else, but unfortunately may be a better choice than renovating the Dome. We have a few bad options in the arena discussion with a divisive chancellor who is politically insulated. That, plus Hubert failing to live up to UNC standards is creating a really unfortunate mess (not to mention the Belichick disaster)
 
Roberts is an agent of Art Pope. If you want to know his personal Project 2025 all you need to do is follow his foundation...an institution engaged in dragging Carolina down for decades now.

jwpf.org

John William Pope Foundation - A North Carolina Grant Maker

The John William Pope Foundation, led by Chairman Art Pope, makes grants to public policy, education, human services, and arts nonprofits.
jwpf.org jwpf.org
 
uncjhodges said:
Yea, Roberts is an incompetent MAGA asshole who is ruining the university. I think his mixed use CN gamble likely is about enriching friends more than anything else, but unfortunately may be a better choice than renovating the Dome. We have a few bad options in the arena discussion with a divisive chancellor who is politically insulated. That, plus Hubert failing to live up to UNC standards is creating a really unfortunate mess (not to mention the Belichick disaster)
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Agree about the arena options. The Dean Dome could certainly use a facelift with wider concourses, better amenities, new restrooms, more efficient ingress/egress, etc. but to me the bigger issues with it are the cavernous dimensions and lack of student seating near the court because of the PSLs. I don’t feel like issues that can be adequately addressed with a renovation.

That of course leaves a new arena and the slew of problems that come with that. Carolina North could be a great option as a mixed use area if executed correctly, but I could also see that being a flop that turns into a tacky strip mall wasteland. Odum Village seems like the most reasonable compromise, but I admittedly don’t know much about how that would impact the hospital’s current or future operations, and I’ve seen some people whose opinions I respect on IC make the case that Odum’s proximity to the hospital makes it a non starter. Plus it would still be down in that far south campus bottleneck where traffic is a nightmare.

I’ve said it before: JPJ is the ideal setup. On campus feel without the bottleneck, great architecture, and I’ve heard people that cover the sport so that it’s the toughest road environment in the ACC these days. Sucks that UNC doesn’t really have an obvious spot for something like that.
 
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Peppers49 said:
For what it’s worth I saw someone on the IC staff the other day say that they get the sense that if the program is in a position where they’re having to make a tough call about Hubert at the end of the season, that it might be intertwined with the new arena/renovate debate. The gist of it was that if push comes to shove those people might feel like they have to be careful about how much political capital they use to make big changes for the program and err on the side of not upsetting the apple cart.

It wouldn’t have to do with race or politics in the way that you mean necessarily, but in that scenario the decision still wouldn’t be made entirely on the merits of the case. To be clear that was just that person’s opinion (think it was Sherrel; can’t remember off the top of my head) but it makes sense and I could see it playing out that way.
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Okay, that part does make sense to me.
 
donbosco said:
Play the politics whatever way that you want but those in charge of the fortunes and future of the University of North Carolina do not have the historical mission of the institution among their goals, rather they are engaged in attempting to change the university from what most of us here love into something different -- something that they will love.
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I'll add that what they will love is most certainly at least partially, if not completely, defined by what most of us here will not love.
 
This might not be the best place to raise the subject, but I’ve been struggling with my feelings, really for decades, a nagging sense that what made me fall in love with Carolina has receded and what has replaced that it is hollow commercialism/commodification and ultimately conformism and mediocrity.

This started slowly with the legislative overreach into affairs and then the chase for research dollars which culminated in the hospital that swallowed a university, a corner of the campus that is now a soulless hulk of bad architecture, walled off from the charm of the original academic village.

Once the Pope influences and the Magafication of state politics firmly embedded themselves, a new agenda took hold, an agenda uninterested in the lofty aspirations of academic freedom, curiosity and cultural elevation, replaced with power-seeking, profiteering and reactionary cultural aspirations.

Simultaneously the adorable, quirky character of the Village slowly evolved reflecting the inexorable demands of market forces, leaving in its place a mostly typical outdoor mall effect.

Admittedly I have visited less and less often (precisely for this reason) and only see things from afar, but I have nevertheless lost that loving feeling.

As far as I can tell, Carolina is indistinct from UF, UGa and many other so-called flagship universities. I follow its sports out of a vestigial devotion to the values that the former mission inculcated in me, what we sometimes shorthand as the Carolina Way.

I also understand that this evolution is not unique; it’s the dominant trend identified as enshittification.

Anyone care to address this?
 
Rock said:
HD will not resign. I don’t know anything. But he will never even get fired anyway. They’ll ask him to resign.
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If this goes sideways, and I'm not convinced that it will, could you guys see Davis coaching anywhere else?
 
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