Hubert Davis Catch-all

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Icky Mettle said:
From what I have seen, I do think that if Hubert had a well-rounded roster with high-level talent throughout the starting lineup, and reliable depth, he can be successful and rack up wins. I do think he would do a good job with the type of talent we had on some of our very good-great UNC teams. It may not look as pretty, but he would probably get the results. But one aspect of coaching is roster construction. While I understand that a GM and those who can provide the NIL funds play major roles there, the coach still plays a major role in identifying the talent and team needs and making those players believe that he is the right coach to help them achieve their goals.
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It also doesn't look great on a coach when one says "Well, if he has a full roster of good players that compliment each other and depth to back them up, he does fine."

Coaching is judged on how you react when things are not ideal, and I think that is where he has failed.
 
It’s probably best to move on because it’s hard to see how next year will be any better and another year of the Davis wars will just be that much more toxic. That said, he also was tracking towards a good year, albeit with some of the same inconsistency that has plagued his tenure, prior to all the injuries. So letting him go is going to unleash some negative feedback at this point as well. Tough position to be in for the AD.
 
Obviously injuries really threw a wrench into the season and that needs to be a factor. Even before Wilson went out though the team was in the fringe top 25 of most metrics and probably trending towards the 4-6 seed range. Solid, but nothing spectacular, particularly in year 5 for Hubert coming off of a rough year 4 and facing job pressure.

I was really hoping we’d see something closer to 2024 to prove that season wasn’t just a one off and to build momentum back up. Instead, it seems like the argument for keeping Hubert boils down to:
  • The season not being a total disaster
  • Possibility of the next coach not being good
  • Emotions already running high with Roy/former players because of the renovate/relocate debate
  • Longtime AD transitioning out, new AD not wanting his first big move to be firing a beloved former player
Essentially, we can’t make a move because the optics would look bad. While those are all completely valid points and I understand the reasoning, barring an unexpected deep tournament run (can never rule anything out) we’ll be going into the offseason with uncertainty again and likely needing to replace a ton of production through the transfer portal. Not a position that inspires much confidence, at least from my perspective.
 
SnoopRob said:
The absolute majority of folks - including ones who were not excited when HD was named as head coach - were supportive of him until sometime last season when it became clear we weren’t a terribly good team. While there were folks actively against HD from the very beginning, it was a small percentage of the fan base for the first 3.5 seasons or so until the performance on the court was repeatedly below the historic Carolina standard.
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What is the operational definition of the "historic Carolina standard" for a coach's 1st 4 years at the helm ?

Do we compare him to Dean and Roy as the standard for the first 4 years as a head coach with no previous head caching experience ?
 
SnoopRob said:
If we’re talking about a very vocal 5% of the fan base who have been this way the whole time, then…

(A) I agree.

(B) They’re small enough as a percentage of the whole population that we shouldn’t really care what they say.

(C) We really shouldn’t use them to draw any overarching conclusions about the fan base as a whole.
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Frankly if we’re looking at percentages I’ve got to say that imo probably 50 to 60% don’t even think about firing Coach Davis.
 
heelinhell said:
What is the operational definition of the "historic Carolina standard" for a coach's 1st 4 years at the helm ?

Do we compare him to Dean and Roy as the standard for the first 4 years as a head coach with no previous head caching experience ?
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Comparing what HD inherited to what Dean took over isn’t apples to oranges, it’s apples to durian. It’s so different in milieu, program status, and program goals as to be a useless comparison.

We can compare HD’s first 5 years as HC to Roy’s first 5 years here or at Kansas, but I don’t think either of those comparisons work well for HD.

The (on-court) “historic Carolina standard” as of 2021 when HD took over is to have a team that plays hard/smart/together, maximizes its talent, and competes for championships. For the most part, we’ve been well below that standard during HD’s tenure in CH.
 
donbosco said:
Frankly if we’re looking at percentages I’ve got to say that imo probably 50 to 60% don’t even think about firing Coach Davis.
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I think you are likely correct if we’re talking the entire fan base, including casual fans.

I also think the further you go up the ladder from casual to hardcore fans, the greater the percentage in favor of moving on.
 
SnoopRob said:
Comparing what HD inherited to what Dean took over isn’t apples to oranges, it’s apples to durian. It’s so different in milieu, program status, and program goals as to be a useless comparison.

We can compare HD’s first 5 years as HC to Roy’s first 5 years here or at Kansas, but I don’t think those either of comparisons work well for HD.

The (on-court) “historic Carolina standard” as of 2021 when HD took over is to have a team that plays hard/smart/together, maximizes its talent, and competes for championships. For the most part, we’ve been well below that standard during HD’s tenure in CH.
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You are omitting a couple of critical seasons there between when that was true and he took over.
 
SnoopRob said:
Comparing what HD inherited to what Dean took over isn’t apples to oranges, it’s apples to durian. It’s so different in milieu, program status, and program goals as to be a useless comparison.

We can compare HD’s first 5 years as HC to Roy’s first 5 years here or at Kansas, but I don’t think those either of comparisons work well for HD.

The (on-court) “historic Carolina standard” as of 2021 when HD took over is to have a team that plays hard/smart/together, maximizes its talent, and competes for championships. For the most part, we’ve been well below that standard during HD’s tenure in CH.
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So what about a comparison with Roy's 1st 4 years at Kansas ? Would that be a useless comparison ,as well ?
 
uncsig said:
Yes. Because 1989-93 CBB was a completely different world.
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I absolutely agree. The externals of college basketball have changed so much that building a program is a lot different both from the point of rules and competition on the court and in recruiting.

Where I keep screwing up is I expect that to apply across the board.
 
uncsig said:
Yes. Because 1989-93 CBB was a completely different world.
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It was a sublime world compared to today, and despite the advantages Roy had those 1st 4 years at Kansas compared to Hubie ,Hubie's record and accomplishments are comparable.
 
heelinhell said:
It was a sublime world compared to today, and despite the advantages Roy had those 1st 4 years at Kansas compared to Hubie ,Hubie's record and accomplishments are comparable.
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Kansas was on probation when Roy took over the program. While Hubert didn’t exactly walk into UNC at peak form back in 2021, it’s pretty debatable that it was somehow a worse situation than taking over a program facing sanctions and a postseason ban like Roy had to deal with in his first season.

I’d also push back that their accomplishments are even remotely comparable. After Roy’s first season with the postseason ban, his next 4 seasons were 2 seed, 3 seed, 1 seed, 2 seed, with 3 regular season titles, 2 final fours, and a conference tournament title.
 
rebeltarheel0408 said:
What types of programs would hire Hubert tomorrow?
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A coach his age with his time under Roy as an assistant, his record as a head coach, his recognition from his time on TV and relationships there and relative youth? My guess is , if he wanted to coach, he'd have a larger range of decent choices that we would. Disagree with me if you want but why would you try to paint him as undesirable by anybody else's standards. I don't think anybody would say he was a top ten coach right now but he's not a lot below that, imo.
 
SnoopRob said:
I think you are likely correct if we’re talking the entire fan base, including casual fans.

I also think the further you go up the ladder from casual to hardcore fans, the greater the percentage in favor of moving on.
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But ultimately percentages don’t really matter much but rather it is money so 5% or 75% =meh
 
finesse said:
A coach his age with his time under Roy as an assistant, his record as a head coach, his recognition from his time on TV and relationships there and relative youth? My guess is , if he wanted to coach, he'd have a larger range of decent choices that we would. Disagree with me if you want but why would you try to paint him as undesirable by anybody else's standards. I don't think anybody would say he was a top ten coach right now but he's not a lot below that, imo.
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Fired coaches are recycled all the time. It's more or less a fraternity.
 
finesse said:
A coach his age with his time under Roy as an assistant, his record as a head coach, his recognition from his time on TV and relationships there and relative youth? My guess is , if he wanted to coach, he'd have a larger range of decent choices that we would. Disagree with me if you want but why would you try to paint him as undesirable by anybody else's standards. I don't think anybody would say he was a top ten coach right now but he's not a lot below that, imo.
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He would be more desirable than Doherty, who got FAU and SMU. So I’d say Hubert could get a mid-major or a low major job, maybe a Georgia or Vanderbilt level - something like that.
 
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