Hurting people you love

ChapelHillSooner said:
So an update. This person came to visit for a four day weekend. No relationship in my life has ever been so perfect. We are just soul mates. Always have been.
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Be VERY cautious of the rebound effect... it's a real thing. It's ok to be in love now. It will help you move past things you needed to move past. But if she's truly your soul mate, she will still be your soul mate a year from now. Take your time.
 
So an update on this. I don’t know where I stand. I may have fucked things up.

This lady lives in Colorado. She is (was?) planning on moving here in August.

She also needs a new car and had been stressed about it. She has come here to visit but I have not gone there. When I offered to go she said we need to save our money for the move. I finally told her I have cash, enough that a couple of flights wouldn’t be an issue. I then offered to give her a couple thousand toward a down payment on the car. (I offered. She never asked.).

Yesterday I sent her $1000. She said something was bothering her so we talked last night. She said her son told her that her estranged daughter was pregnant with her second child which is due in October. She has been wanting to patch things up before moving but now thinks she needs to stay beyond October.

I want her to have a good relationship with her daughter so I support that though I told her it is hard.

I thought all night and by this morning I told her that she should have told me about the change in plans before I sent the $1000. I felt I deserved to know that before not just after.

She told me she would send it back and that she doesn’t want me holding that over her.

Okay, so that last part is really unfair for reasons I can’t bring up. Twenty years ago she borrowed $2700 from me and only paid back $1000. She said she was sending the rest but I never received it. I never mentioned it. I can’t bring that up but I have proven that I don’t hold such things over people. (I have another friend who borrowed $1000 around the same time and for all I can tell he forgot all about it. I have never mentioned it to him.)

I also mentioned that it bothers me that when she is home, it is often 12 or more hours before she will respond to my texts. At work she responds quickly. That and the hesitation of me visiting (which is still a thing) are red flags.

Anyway she is pissed. I don’t even know if we are together. Haven’t heard anything since this morning and she turned off location services.

I know all of this sounds really fishy but keep in mind I’ve known her for 40 years. She chased me non-stop in high school.

So I may be single now. Maybe I deserve it after leaving someone to be with her.

I am a fucking mess. Love opinions. Was I out of line? Did I leave the impression that the money came with conditions. I didn’t mean to imply that. I just thought it was wrong for her to withhold information.

Be kind. I am not well right now.
 
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ChapelHillSooner said:
So an update on this. I don’t know where I stand. I may have fucked things up.

This lady lives in Colorado. She is (was?) planning on moving here in August.

She also needs a new car and had been stressed about it. She has come here to visit but I have not gone there. When I offered to go she said we need to save our money for the move. I finally told her I have cash, enough that a couple of flights wouldn’t be an issue. I then offered to give her a couple thousand toward a down payment on the car. (I offered. She never asked.).

Yesterday I sent her $1000. She said something was bothering her so we talked last night. She said her son told her that her estranged daughter was pregnant with her second child which is due in October. She has been wanting to patch things up before moving but now thinks she needs to stay beyond October.

I want her to have a good relationship with her daughter so I support that though I told her it is hard.

I thought all night and by this morning I told her that she should have told me about the change in plans before I sent the $1000. I felt I deserved to know that before not just after.

She told me she would send it back and that she doesn’t want me holding that over her.

Okay, so that last part is really unfair for reasons I can’t bring up. Twenty years ago she borrowed $2700 from me and only paid back $1000. She said she was sending the rest but I never received it. I never mentioned it. I can’t bring that up but I have proven that I don’t hold such things over people. (I have another friend who borrowed $1000 around the same time and for all I can tell he forgot all about it. I have never mentioned it to him.)

I also mentioned that it bothers me that when she is home, it is often 12 or more hours before she will respond to my texts. At work she responds quickly. That and the hesitation of me visiting (which is still a thing) are red flags.

Anyway she is pissed. I don’t even know if we are together. Haven’t heard anything since this morning and she turned off location services.

I know all of this sounds really fishy but keep in mind I’ve known her for 40 years. She chased me non-stop in high school.

So I may be single now. Maybe I deserve it after leaving someone to be with her.

I am a fucking mess. Love opinions. Was I out of line? Did I leave the impression that the money came with conditions. I didn’t mean to imply that. I just thought it was wrong for her to withhold information.

Be kind. I am not well right now.
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I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this. Relationships are tough.

Personally, I never loan anyone money. If I give someone money, it's with no expectation of being paid back. If they do pay it back, it's great. This just makes for less chance of hard feelings.

As for relationships, I'm no one to give advice. I'm sitting here playing computer games while my soon to be ex-wife is in Indianapolis with her new girlfriend. 😁 I'm learning to be ok being alone.
 
I feel trust issues on both sides. If it were me, I'd need those resolved. I might be seeing something that's not there on either side but I'd have to resolve that in a way I could live with.

Good luck.
 
I would not have fussed over the $1K. To repair it, I would just say you were surprised by the circumstances and she did nothing wrong.

Are you thinking that maybe there's another man around, which accounts for visit hesitance and texting delays?

The 12 hour thing could come across as controlling depending on how you handled it. I would not say it is a red flag. A concern maybe. I'd want to know why you think it's a red flag?
 
I also think that you're probably too old to have fucked things up permanently with a single day of conduct. That strikes me as a younger person thing. If she was willing to move there, it suggests something serious that is worth saving, not something that will blow up because you have a disagreement

Unless you are worried that she never had an intention to move and is sort of catfishing you.
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
So an update on this. I don’t know where I stand. I may have fucked things up.

This lady lives in Colorado. She is (was?) planning on moving here in August.

She also needs a new car and had been stressed about it. She has come here to visit but I have not gone there. When I offered to go she said we need to save our money for the move. I finally told her I have cash, enough that a couple of flights wouldn’t be an issue. I then offered to give her a couple thousand toward a down payment on the car. (I offered. She never asked.).

Yesterday I sent her $1000. She said something was bothering her so we talked last night. She said her son told her that her estranged daughter was pregnant with her second child which is due in October. She has been wanting to patch things up before moving but now thinks she needs to stay beyond October.

I want her to have a good relationship with her daughter so I support that though I told her it is hard.

I thought all night and by this morning I told her that she should have told me about the change in plans before I sent the $1000. I felt I deserved to know that before not just after.

She told me she would send it back and that she doesn’t want me holding that over her.

Okay, so that last part is really unfair for reasons I can’t bring up. Twenty years ago she borrowed $2700 from me and only paid back $1000. She said she was sending the rest but I never received it. I never mentioned it. I can’t bring that up but I have proven that I don’t hold such things over people. (I have another friend who borrowed $1000 around the same time and for all I can tell he forgot all about it. I have never mentioned it to him.)

I also mentioned that it bothers me that when she is home, it is often 12 or more hours before she will respond to my texts. At work she responds quickly. That and the hesitation of me visiting (which is still a thing) are red flags.

Anyway she is pissed. I don’t even know if we are together. Haven’t heard anything since this morning and she turned off location services.

I know all of this sounds really fishy but keep in mind I’ve known her for 40 years. She chased me non-stop in high school.

So I may be single now. Maybe I deserve it after leaving someone to be with her.

I am a fucking mess. Love opinions. Was I out of line? Did I leave the impression that the money came with conditions. I didn’t mean to imply that. I just thought it was wrong for her to withhold information.

Be kind. I am not well right now.
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I will do my best to be kind.

No, you were not out of line and your concern about her not letting you know before you sent the $1000 is reasonable. I would like to think her response would be along the lines of that she completely understands and apologizes for not thinking to let you know beforehand. If she is pissed about that then I would say that is a major red flag not only for this exchange but for how things will be going forward in your relationship.

I would ask her to send back the $1000 because you don't want for her to feel like it would be held over her. The cynic in me suspects she is playing the guilt card hoping you apologize and say keep the $1000.

I hope I have been kind . I am sharing my opinion based upon my professional experience.
 
heelinhell said:
I will do my best to be kind.

No, you were not out of line and your concern about her not letting you know before you sent the $1000 is reasonable. I would like to think her response would be along the lines of that she completely understands and apologizes for not thinking to let you know beforehand. If she is pissed about that then I would say that is a major red flag not only for this exchange but for how things will be going forward in your relationship.

I would ask her to send back the $1000 because you don't want for her to feel like it would be held over her. The cynic in me suspects she is playing the guilt card hoping you apologize and say keep the $1000.

I hope I have been kind . I am sharing my opinion based upon my professional experience.
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I agree with this and I also think there is a serious possibility that she does not ever intend to move. Some people enjoy the fantasy of such things in the moment but never actually do the thing.
 
superrific said:
I would not have fussed over the $1K. To repair it, I would just say you were surprised by the circumstances and she did nothing wrong.

Are you thinking that maybe there's another man around, which accounts for visit hesitance and texting delays?

The 12 hour thing could come across as controlling depending on how you handled it. I would not say it is a red flag. A concern maybe. I'd want to know why you think it's a red flag?
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On the cheating, no, but it has crossed my mind. Both my wives cheated so that is a part of my psychology. But, no. It is more about long distance being hard when the other person is by choice not available a lot.
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
On the cheating, no, but it has crossed my mind. Both my wives cheated so that is a part of my psychology. But, no. It is more about long distance being hard when the other person is by choice not available a lot.
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Did you say, "long distance can be hard when you're not available?" Or "I like talking with you a lot and I'm a bit disappointed when you're not available"?

It seems like *this issue* could resolve itself fairly easily with frank discussion. If not, there are other things going on. Given what you've said about your wives, I second the idea that there are trust issues.

I also think you're still dealing with the "I left someone else for this" issue, which could cloud your judgment in different ways. You might be overreacting, because the thing you feared most suddenly appears maybe to be happening (i.e. you're left with nobody) and you instinctively see it.

The location services being off seems a little bizarre if she's half the world away, but I'll say no more about that because I have nothing to add. I don't use location services; I don't know what they symbolize; or pretty much anything about the issue entirely. Perhaps you could expound.

In general, I'd tend to go with the advice of the former therapist, even if he does day drink way more than is good for him.
 
superrific said:
I also think that you're probably too old to have fucked things up permanently with a single day of conduct. That strikes me as a younger person thing. If she was willing to move there, it suggests something serious that is worth saving, not something that will blow up because you have a disagreement

Unless you are worried that she never had an intention to move and is sort of catfishing you.
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I think she did have intentions to move. She left a lot of stuff in my apartment - nothing real valuable but a signal nevertheless.

But I also think the entire things is stressing her out. I do wonder if she would take something like this as a sign or something.

I do worry that the move won’t happen as some else hinted, not because she doesn’t want it but because it is so hard.

I also worry that if she patches things with her daughter that that will be a reason for her to stay close. And I can’t argue against that. Her having a relationship with her daughter is important. That said l, her daughter is almost 30. By the time I was 30 I had lived 1300 miles from home for 8 years.
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
I think she did have intentions to move. She left a lot of stuff in my apartment - nothing real valuable but a signal nevertheless.

But I also think the entire things is stressing her out. I do wonder if she would take something like this as a sign or something.

I do worry that the move won’t happen as some else hinted, not because she doesn’t want it but because it is so hard.

I also worry that if she patches things with her daughter that that will be a reason for her to stay close. And I can’t argue against that. Her having a relationship with her daughter is important. That said l, her daughter is almost 30. By the time I was 30 I had lived 1300 miles from home for 8 years.
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1. Of course it is stressing her out. I would be surprised if it didn't. It's a stressful thing. Life defining decision under great uncertainty.

2. I had lived 1000 miles from home for 10 years by the time I was 26. I'm not sure what difference that makes. It wouldn't change the analysis for me.

3. Y'all need to talk. If this just happened like today or yesterday, then give it a day. Reach out to her tomorrow. I suspect you're blowing it up in your head. Which is natural and I'm not criticizing, just encouraging.

4. I know very, very well that dreaded down time, the time between when you want to talk and get it sorted and when you are actually able to. That shit is hard. I found that it helped at least a little to remember baseline probabilities. Probably, this doesn't derail the relationship. Even if you get some signals suggesting that maybe it would, the baseline probability still controls if those are weak signals (sounds like they are). So probably it will be OK -- by that I mean the situation will revert to its structural equilibrium: Maybe it won't work for actual reasons but not because you screwed up.

Based on what you've written, my own lousy intuition, and speculation, I'd bet money on even odds that it will be just fine.
 
UNCatTech said:
I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this. Relationships are tough.

Personally, I never loan anyone money. If I give someone money, it's with no expectation of being paid back. If they do pay it back, it's great. This just makes for less chance of hard feelings.

As for relationships, I'm no one to give advice. I'm sitting here playing computer games while my soon to be ex-wife is in Indianapolis with her new girlfriend. 😁 I'm learning to be ok being alone.
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I don’t think I will ever learn to be ok with being alone. It is certainly a character flaw. It is also because I really don’t have friends. I have coworkers I will have a beer with every few months but not any real support. My best friend is a female and she is awesome but I haven’t see her in five years even though she lives a couple of miles away. (I have spent a lot of time on the phone with her today.)

My social circle has always been my partner’s social circle so when relationships end I end up with nothing. To make it worse I mostly work from home. It is debilitatingly isolating if I am not in a relationship. (And I know that all is a red flag. It is what it is.)

My ex (actually not divorced) expressed interest in reconciling and we have a friendship but she is also still seeing the guy she left me for - though he is in his 60’s and his health isn’t great so supposedly there is no physical relationship anymore.

I am rambling. Wish I could be happy alone.
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
It is certainly a character flaw. It is also because I really don’t have friends.
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It most certainly is not a character flaw. The second sentence explains one reason why.

There are a fuckload of middle aged dudes who have trouble being alone. Many of them turn to drugs or alcohol. My wife's ex- seems to be just running out the string. So don't do any of that. And don't beat yourself up.

It is most certainly not a character flaw.
 
superrific said:
It most certainly is not a character flaw. The second sentence explains one reason why.

There are a fuckload of middle aged dudes who have trouble being alone. Many of them turn to drugs or alcohol. My wife's ex- seems to be just running out the string. So don't do any of that. And don't beat yourself up.

It is most certainly not a character flaw.
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Is it okay if I turn to alcohol tonight? I am on beer 2 at the taproom in southern village. I am doing at least two more.
 
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This is all why I shut down emotionally three decades ago. This woman (girl at that time) has a way to open my heart up then break it.

Always been a long distance relationship which is the reason it ended years ago. I fucked up and didn’t date her when it wasn’t - all because I thought she was too young.
 
Not being socially active is no character flaw. The reason I attached myself to sports at Carolina (and specifically baseball) was that I had no idea how to socialize. It is natural to crave some sort of interaction. The fact that you rely on your partner for that does make you far more susceptible to being left alone.
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
Is it okay if I turn to alcohol tonight? I am on beer 2 at the taproom in southern village. I am doing at least two more.
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Talk to our day drinker. I literally have nothing to say about booze. Haven't had a drink in 25 years. Not because of a drinking problem; I'm just not a drinker
 
superrific said:
Did you say, "long distance can be hard when you're not available?" Or "I like talking with you a lot and I'm a bit disappointed when you're not available"?

It seems like *this issue* could resolve itself fairly easily with frank discussion. If not, there are other things going on. Given what you've said about your wives, I second the idea that there are trust issues.

I also think you're still dealing with the "I left someone else for this" issue, which could cloud your judgment in different ways. You might be overreacting, because the thing you feared most suddenly appears maybe to be happening (i.e. you're left with nobody) and you instinctively see it.

The location services being off seems a little bizarre if she's half the world away, but I'll say no more about that because I have nothing to add. I don't use location services; I don't know what they symbolize; or pretty much anything about the issue entirely. Perhaps you could expound.

In general, I'd tend to go with the advice of the former therapist, even if he does day drink way more than is good for him.
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Not sure if this is common or relevant, but my middle daughter turns her location service off when she's mad at us.
 
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