—> ICE / Immigration / Nation grapples with ICE killings

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Callatoroy said:
I typically believe socialist / marxist groups are Anti-American
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That's not the issue, champ. It's that the vast majority of the people observing ICE are not "marxist" in any way. There are about as many Marxists in the US as there are interstate highways. There are more socialist groups, but a) socialism is not nearly the beast you think it is; and b) still most people are not socialist.

Again, this is basic logic. If A and B are both doing X, and B is a socialist, that tells you nothing about A's views about socialism.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I don't even think Miller wants normal run of the mill protestors to be shot. It doesn't help him, and his goal of deporting undocumented immigrants. I don't think he or Trump mind some violent fisticuffs, especially if some nut job protestor can be blamed for instigating it, but killing people without provocation ends up tanking their poll ratings.
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Noem is to stupid to know and has to have someone tell her what to think. Miller isn't stupid, but I'm not sure he cares at this point. my level of disdain for him is at pelosi levels.
 
I'm so glad I don't know who the hell "Ignored Member" is that just posted lmao, and I agree fully with Pence, I don't think anyone disagrees that violent & dangerous undocumented criminals should be arrested, tried and deported.
 
Callatoroy said:
I don't know Chile. I'm always the one willing to give a minority opinion. Why don't you take a stab at it.
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Sure. Trump calls ICE out of Minnesota and goes back to having DHS run immigration back to when Obama and Biden deported as many or more illegal immigrants without all of the stuff we both agree we don’t like.
In the meantime, we vote for democrats until the republicans stop with the insanity.
You join the peaceful protestors.
 
lightbluenc said:
It has to be utterly humiliating to not be able to critically think for yourself.
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I think a lot of it is - "does this thing make the other side mad?"

If yes - support
If no - do not support

Most of these people are perfectly capable of thinking critically for themselves, but to honestly endeavor to do that would mean abstaining from the dopamine hit they get from liberal tears.

It's an addiction. They're addicts.
 
heelinhell said:
Pence joins Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski in the "deeply troubled and concerned" wing of the GQP...
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In fairness to Pence, he did run for president in the anti-Trump lane of the GOP (more or less), so he at least tried to do something. And Murkowski also tries to do things on occasion. In my view, Collins is year in, year out the MVP of the deeply concerned faction. I could be persuaded otherwise.
 
ChileG said:
Sure. Trump calls ICE out of Minnesota and goes back to having DHS run immigration back to when Obama and Biden deported as many or more illegal immigrants without all of the stuff we both agree we don’t like.
I’m the meantime, we vote for democrats until the republicans stop with the insanity.
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That's not really feasible is it? I was hoping you would come up with something more realistic that addresses the problem.
 
Callatoroy said:
I typically believe socialist / marxist groups are Anti-American
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Not nearly so much as Christian Nationalists. It's within our framework for socialists and Marxists to participate without violating the Constitution. Almost all the rightist agendas do involve unconstitutional stances. The extreme Christian (lol) organizations rightly belong on a list of subversive groups and membership should make you ineligible to get a security clearance.
 
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Callatoroy said:
The state of minnesota and the city of minneapolis are culpable in what has transpired. Out of political ideology they decided to ignore immigration laws and create sanctuary states / cities.
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Cities and states don't have immigration laws. The federal government does. So state and local governments can't "ignore" federal laws. And the federal government can't commandeer state and local law enforcement to help them enforce immigration laws. "Sanctuary city" policies are not necessarily founded on opposition to having and enforcing immigration laws. Many local governments simply understand that if their communities containing undocumented people fear that the local police will enforce immigration laws against them, it will make it much harder to actually police those communities.

Callatoroy said:
Now you have socialist / marxist groups funding and organizing protests and using social media to stir up and agitate protesters
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The Rock Eye Roll GIF by WWE
Callatoroy said:
Wanting to abolish ICE is the same as opposing immigration laws isn't it?
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No.
 
Callatoroy said:
They campaigned on deporting all illegal aliens. They said they were going to start with those with criminal records first. That hasn't, by literal definition, been the case. Tactics were never discussed in the campaign and weren't a campaign issue.
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Yeah, but you chose to throw your vote behind someone who claimed in a debate that Somalis were “eating our cats and dogs.”
A statement so ridiculous, it (and many other things going back to 2015 when he descended that escalator) should have been a sign to you that the immigration tactics would be equally insane.
At some point the “I didn’t know Trump was going to do Illegal/stupid/inhumane crap,” is no longer a believable defense.
 
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Callatoroy said:
And your argument falls apart, first, when that bill didn't address sanctuary cities that have been in existence for years, and secondly when it is pointed out that that bill was garbage and didn't come close to solving the immediate issue. At least admit there was fault with the bill. Saying a bill existed without any context is pretty weak. Trump proved without a doubt that it didn't take a BS bill to stop the problem as rubes who fell for that biden BS now see.

Trump did astutely and correctly tell the rube pubs who supported it to not pass it because it got him elected and them a majority. He knew it didn't take a crappy bill to secure the border and that it was a losing issue for dems.
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It's a huge, complicated problem. One that would require compromise to get to a reasonable solution. But we can't have that kind of thing around here anymore. Zero-sum politics means your team must ensure that perfect gets in the way of progress. It's a great way to really stick it to the other team. Oh, and you can proceed to run an entire presidential campaign on that issue.
State Of The Union GIF by PBS NewsHour
 
Callatoroy said:
I typically believe socialist / marxist groups are Anti-American
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but do you believe that those groups are responsible for these peaceful protests in Minneapolis ?

Do you believe that the Minneapolis community would have welcomed ICE as liberators if not for a cabal of organizing radical left wing socialist/Marxist outside agitators coming into Minneapolis to stir up the community ?
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I don't even think Miller wants normal run of the mill protestors to be shot. It doesn't help him, and his goal of deporting undocumented immigrants. I don't think he or Trump mind some violent fisticuffs, especially if some nut job protestor can be blamed for instigating it, but killing people without provocation ends up tanking their poll ratings.
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I think Miller's record of posting about these incidents is contrary to what you're saying here. He wants ordinary citizens to be afraid for their lives if they're in the vicinity of ICE so that they will stay away from ICE and not try to protect vulnerable communities against its aggression and hooliganism. And one way to make them afraid for their lives is for them to get shot by ICE.
 
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