—> ICE / Immigration / Nation grapples with ICE killings

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Callatoroy said:
it appeared in Apple News and sourced from Fox News. The majority of the info is easily refuted if not true. You either believe ice arrested those individuals or they made up fictitious people and created false criminal histories which isnt very likely. The source isn’t what is relevant here. The info reported is what is important.
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The source absolutely is relevant when it has a track record of intentionally misleading or even outright lying.
I get that it confirms your biases and that’s why you showed up to share it but those who place value on factual accuracy and integrity in media are well justified in being skeptical. Maybe it’s all true. That’s a possibility, but one that will require some confirmation before anyone paying attention is likely to believe.
 
finesse said:
Just a couple of holes in that. A lot of people are having their asylum overturned en bloc so they they didn't actually get a hearing and I still don't know why being charged with something in today's politic climate means a damned thing.
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I wouldn't call those holes, more like separate topics.

Ultimately, it's not illegal to remove criminal immigrants who haven't been granted asylum or legal status, right?

People may disagree about where that criminal line should be drawn, but it's not illegal.
 
ZenMode said:
I wouldn't call those holes, more like separate topics.

Ultimately, it's not illegal to remove criminal immigrants who haven't been granted asylum or legal status, right?

People may disagree about where that criminal line should be drawn, but it's not illegal.
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Charged with a crime doesn't make you a criminal.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
The source absolutely is relevant when it has a track record of intentionally misleading or even outright lying.
I get that it confirms your biases and that’s why you showed up to share it but those who place value on factual accuracy and integrity in media are well justified in being skeptical. Maybe it’s all true. That’s a possibility, but one that will require some confirmation before anyone paying attention is likely to believe.
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I don't fault the skepticism. I fault any dismissal without the intellectual curiosity to verify it or the outright dismissal because of personal bias. Which leads to a 2nd problem in this political issue. I didn't show up to provide that. I showed up to read the information that is posted in this thread. Some I don't see in what I read, and that is a lot. I provided it as one counter to the vast majority of linked sources of information that gets posted on this topic. Had I not provided it, that information would have never been seen here. It is very much relevent. Some will immediately dismiss it. Some will question it and verify and some will accept it. What is important to me is that side of the story isn't being told by every media source. I would hope we share an understanding of why.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Of course I am talking about methodology and tactics. You have been the one consistently launching bombs that accuse the rest of us of wanting open borders and no deportations.
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I tried repeatedly to ask simply if deportation was supported for people in this country illegally. For whatever reason, intentional obtuseness, ignorance, lack of understanding, miscommunication, dislike of me, or whatever else it may have been It was incredibly difficult to get a simple answer. My purpose is to understand if we disagree, where we disagree, and how much we disagree. That's it. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I could be as I'm going off of memory) but you said you supported deporting only those with violent criminal histories. Am I misremembering?

We hardly even got to the issue of tactics used. Which I did say I disagreed with. Hence my comment earlier about 90% agreement.
 
Example 1 - "Tens of thousands of law abiding citizens ripped from their communities and families destroyed."

Please provide sources for that claim. Someone in this country illegally isn't a citizen, nor law abiding.
 
Fine, tens of thousands of peaceful and productive “human beings”. Hiding hate behind anecdotes and semantics is more cowardly than just owning it.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
It’s from FoxNews, it simply repeats comments made by DHS and makes no attempt to independently verify anything.
Given the repeated, demonstrable lies from DHS and the rest of the Trump administration, why should anyone believe what they say until it can be confirmed by real journalists or other trustworthy sources?
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But you agree it would be very easy for other sources to refute it if not true correct? I mean don't you think the NYT would love to highlight fox news making up fictional people with fabricated criminal charges? I give you more credit than that. This did't come from Hannity. Hard to discuss anything in good faith if every source of information that doesn't align with your pov is discredited. It's not like sources I'm assuming you have faith in haven't been very publicly exposed to intentionally misreporting information only to later go back and go "my bad". I'm certainly no champion of the press. Right or left.
 
ZenMode said:
I wouldn't call those holes, more like separate topics.

Ultimately, it's not illegal to remove criminal immigrants who haven't been granted asylum or legal status, right?

People may disagree about where that criminal line should be drawn, but it's not illegal.
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Compared to other political issues, the issue of illegal immigration and enforcement isn't very complicated. From reading this board my interrpretation (although very few are willing to say so) is that most agree with deporting violent illegals. A small few agree with deporting those with non violent offenses, and almost none agree with deporting those with no criminal offenses other than being here w'out "permission"

All disagree with the tactics used.

Do you see it the same way?
 
ZenMode said:
From the CBS article. These are the people ICE has deported.

Civil immigration violations only (39.8%)
All other crimes (30.1%)
Assault (10.9%)
DWI / DUI (7.6%)
Dangerous Drugs (5.7%)
Weapons Offenses (1.6%)
Sexual Assault (1.4%)
Burglary (1.3%)
Robbery (0.7%)
Homicide (0.5%)
Kidnapping (0.3%)
Arson (0.1%)

There are also people who've lost their asylum case, are not criminals beyond that, who should be deported according to our own laws. So, while people may disagree with where the line is drawn, I don't see anything wrong with deporting non-violent criminals who are here illegally. Given the demand to come here, we can afford to be selective. We don't need to import drunk drivers.
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That's certainly 1 way to report it. For those readers that don't apply any critical thinking skills it leads them in a direction the source wanted them to go. If reported another way it possibly sends a different message to those people. If the reporter had written it by saying (using 400K as baseline of total deportations) so far the effort to deport illegal immigrants has resulted 84,800 violent illegal aliens deported, or 240,800 illegal aliens with criminal records deported, the narrative is seen differently. Of course this does nothing to address tactics used which is a completely different part of the issue. But that's not the way the media is telling the story because the media knows 90% of the public isn't going to apply those critical thinking skills.
 
pspsps said:
Fine, tens of thousands of peaceful and productive “human beings”. Hiding hate behind anecdotes and semantics is more cowardly than just owning it.
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That have no legal right to be in the country.

Your entire post was factually incorrect and emotional rhetoric. You don't have the legal expertise to back up all of your claims and if you did you would see that it isn't applicable in the numbers you throw out. I'm not about to argue that in 400,000 deportations people haven't had their rights violated. In fact I know they have. What it comes down to imo is that you are one of the ones who disagrees with deporting anyone other than those with violent criminal histories (and maybe not those, or anyone with a criminal history). I don't know. Not willing to state your position clearly is cowardly.

I'm not hiding behind anything. I have been very clear where I stand on both the issue of illegal immigration and the current tactics being used. That you see anyone who disagrees with your position as showing hate is your mental handicap to overcome.
 
Callatoroy said:
That have no legal right to be in the country.

Your entire post was factually incorrect and emotional rhetoric. You don't have the legal expertise to back up all of your claims and if you did you would see that it isn't applicable in the numbers you throw out. I'm not about to argue that in 400,000 deportations people haven't had their rights violated. In fact I know they have. What it comes down to imo is that you are one of the ones who disagrees with deporting anyone other than those with violent criminal histories (and maybe not those, or anyone with a criminal history). I don't know. Not willing to state your position clearly is cowardly.

I'm not hiding behind anything. I have been very clear where I stand on both the issue of illegal immigration and the current tactics being used. That you see anyone who disagrees with your position as showing hate is your mental handicap to overcome.
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Your posting history makes your victimization complex laughable.
 
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