—> ICE / Immigration / Video from ICE shooter POV released, firestorm ensues

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This is the bottom line from zen's perspective: federal officials who behave irresponsibly, recklessly, and unjustifiably in their use of force have no accountability. Citizens who let themselves get anywhere near those officers are then entirely responsible for what happens to them.

I mean this is some real dark shit. "If you see federal officers coming, you should run and hide, and if you don't it's your fault if the officer is in a bad mood and/or you look at him funny and he decides to shoot you." Talk about a depressing conceptual framework for a society.
 
TangledUpInBlue06 said:
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There's little difference in how one should handle an ICE agent if they approach you and how one should handle an attempted robbery if you are accosted on the street at night.

Unfortunately, John Mulaney's advice of having $20 in a money clip that you can throw toward the robber and then run away while he's distracted is unlikely to work on the ICE agent.
 
rodoheel said:
This is the bottom line from zen's perspective: federal officials who behave irresponsibly, recklessly, and unjustifiably in their use of force have no accountability. Citizens who let themselves get anywhere near those officers are then entirely responsible for what happens to them.

I mean this is some real dark shit. "If you see federal officers coming, you should run and hide, and if you don't it's your fault if the officer is in a bad mood and/or you look at him funny and he decides to shoot you." Talk about a depressing conceptual framework for a society.
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To be frank the progression to this point has been entirely predictable since November of 2024.
 
rodoheel said:
This is the bottom line from zen's perspective: federal officials who behave irresponsibly, recklessly, and unjustifiably in their use of force have no accountability.
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That is too often the case. Law Enforcement Officers of all types, but especially at the state and local level and including ICE because of the rush to hire, are under trained and too often under qualified for the power they have.
rodoheel said:
Citizens who let themselves get anywhere near those officers are then entirely responsible for what happens to them.
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Not all, but you have to have an awareness of the risks you take when you resist, reach and aggressively drive toward/around LEOs. You also have to be aware that LEOs are going to get the benefit of the doubt more often than not...and they know it.
rodoheel said:
I mean this is some real dark shit. "If you see federal officers coming, you should run and hide, and if you don't it's your fault if the officer is in a bad mood and/or you look at him funny and he decides to shoot you."
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That's more than a little hyperbolic.
rodoheel said:
Talk about a depressing conceptual framework for a society.
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Even minus the hyperbole, yes, the situation with law enforcement is rather depressing.
 
ZenMode said:
That is too often the case. Law Enforcement Officers of all types, but especially at the state and local level and including ICE because of the rush to hire, are under trained and too often under qualified for the power they have.

Not all, but you have to have an awareness of the risks you take when you resist, reach and aggressively drive toward/around LEOs. You also have to be aware that LEOs are going to get the benefit of the doubt more often than not...and they know it.

That's more than a little hyperbolic.

Even minus the hyperbole, yes, the situation with law enforcement is rather depressing.
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OK, then here is your opportunity to cut through the hyperbole.

Do you believe this officer acted legally or do you believe this officer committed a crime? It is a binary choice. I am not asking you what the deceased should have done to avoid the situation. I am not asking you what you think will happen with regard to prosecution. Do YOU believe the officer is guilty of some crime with relation to the death of this citizen?
 
wmheel1287 said:
OK, then here is your opportunity to cut through the hyperbole.

Do you believe this officer acted legally or do you believe this officer committed a crime? It is a binary choice. I am not asking you what the deceased should have done to avoid the situation. I am not asking you what you think will happen with regard to prosecution. Do YOU believe the officer is guilty of some crime with relation to the death of this citizen?
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For me, it will depend on when he fired his weapon. If he fired all three shots from the driver's side, where he would not be at risk, then he should be charged.
 
The legit videos, even from the cell phone of Ross, show clearly that he cross the front of the car...which was turning away - you can easily see Good turning hard to the right and out of the way of Ross. He was outside the front fender when he took the shot through the corner of the windshield. Maneuvered easily to the side and obviously took two shots at point blank range through the window.

PTSD Ross was clearly enraged, when he would have heard about 3 sec. before - "I'm not mad at you" from Renee Good. This was an execution.

We know that any insane MAGA supporting the shooting and denying the clear facts from the real (not AI manipulated) videos is NOT a CONSERVATIVE.

OG conservatives believed in protecting women and children...not slaughtering them like ICE, Bibi, or Putin. OG conservatives actually believed in the law rather than blindly supporting one "side" like it was your football team, regardless of the facts. OG conservatives believed and supported science and facts while classic left wingers of the 70s want a focus only on social programs. Leftists attempted, largely successfully to take NASA apart. Arlen Spector supported NIH funding. When the GOP started drifting away from science and facts, he became an independent.

So, if a woman with 3 children who explains "I'm not mad at you." and is letting cars go by has a lesbian wife and is a "lib'rul," then she should be executed.

So, left wingers should immediately murder all African-Americans who support conservative views or even MAGA.

That is not America nor its Constitution. If you believe the above and some upside down bizarro, Orange 1984 world, please take all your friends and family and move to Mongolia, Hungary, Ecuador, Russia, Palestine, or today Israel because the aforemention governments of those countries believe that killing women and children is just fine...as long as they are on the "other side."

Anyone groping the interwebz for this type of validation...is a gd chimpanzeee...and not a human being living in a democracy. If you don't believe in the fundamental principles of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, you should leave and take most of Ice with you. Don't forget the Orange guy...he's old, insane, doddering, changed political parties - but should not be murdered. Orange guy should be removed from office and protected.
 
ZenMode said:
For me, it will depend on when he fired his weapon. If he fired all three shots from the driver's side, where he would not be at risk, then he should be charged.
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In my opinion, there is ample video evidence with screen captures to make that decision. Also, the first and only shot that was through the windshield (low and to the extreme driver side) is at a trajectory that indicates it was from the side. If that shot was from the front, the shot would have exited the vehicle through the open side Window or blown out another window. It is most likely that all 3 shots struck the deceased meaning that all 3 were definitely from the side.

As a followup, do you believe that the Adminsitration is committing a crime by not allowing investigation by local authorities into the incident?
 
wmheel1287 said:
In my opinion, there is ample video evidence with screen captures to make that decision. Also, the first and only shot that was through the windshield (low and to the extreme driver side) is at a trajectory that indicates it was from the side. If that shot was from the front, the shot would have exited the vehicle through the open side Window or blown out another window. It is most likely that all 3 shots struck the deceased meaning that all 3 were definitely from the side.
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From what I've seen, it looks like only one shot can be accounted for as coming from the side. I haven't seen anything official on the trajectory, through which window, etc.
wmheel1287 said:
As a followup, do you believe that the Adminsitration is committing a crime by not allowing investigation by local authorities into the incident?
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I'm not sure how that works. Clearly this is a federal incident. I don't know if it's legal for the federal government to take sole control of the investigation.
 
wmheel1287 said:
In my opinion, there is ample video evidence with screen captures to make that decision. Also, the first and only shot that was through the windshield (low and to the extreme driver side) is at a trajectory that indicates it was from the side. If that shot was from the front, the shot would have exited the vehicle through the open side Window or blown out another window. It is most likely that all 3 shots struck the deceased meaning that all 3 were definitely from the side.

As a followup, do you believe that the Adminsitration is committing a crime by not allowing investigation by local authorities into the incident?
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Correct. You can see his feet outside the front sheels on the behind POV video.
 
ZenMode said:
From what I've seen, it looks like only one shot can be accounted for as coming from the side. I haven't seen anything official on the trajectory, through which window, etc.

I'm not sure how that works. Clearly this is a federal incident. I don't know if it's legal for the federal government to take sole control of the investigation.
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Wait...you think only one shot came from the side? Have you actually watched the videos and looked at photography of the vehicle?

There is one bullet entry through the windshield. It is low on the windshield and far to the extreme drivers side almost hitting the roof pillar. That is clearly the only shot that did not enter the open driver's window as there are no other penetrations to the vehicle.

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superrific said:
You're thanking him for misleading you? Those cases are not on point. I've explained the law. Listening to a data scientist who doesn't understand data as he pulls random shit off Reddit is a poor choice, in my opinion.
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I was thanking him for responding. I really had no idea what the answer was going to be or if he was correct. And I am not qualified to wade into the muck to determine that one. So here is my thank you to you for giving a substantive response. And I'm willing to bet you are correct.
 
ZenMode said:
From what I've seen, it looks like only one shot can be accounted for as coming from the side. I haven't seen anything official on the trajectory, through which window, etc.

I'm not sure how that works. Clearly this is a federal incident. I don't know if it's legal for the federal government to take sole control of the investigation.
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Our Legal Eagles can weigh in?

There could be state and/or federal charges. Clearly, Trump's feds will obstruct any investigation that would provide information to the state prosecutors of Minnesota. In addition, the Feds could take internal disciplinary action.

The state will have the coroner's report and possibly ballistics if a bullet is found in Ms. Good's body. I believe the Feds took possession of the vehicle. The reason ICE did not want the physicians from assisting Renee Good, was not just being an @$$hole and inhumane, but they didn't want any additional witness, especially with professional expertise.

I assume in the end, this will be whitewashed and there won't be sufficient data/facts for either a state or Fed. conviction/charge. We'll see.
 
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