Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR - US Blockade, Lebanon Ceasefire

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superrific said:
Would you shut up? You're always wrong,
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You have an opinion of why things happened how they did. I have a different opinion. You are no more right or wrong than I am.
superrific said:
so if you keep posting shit like this, they will probably close the fucking strait again.
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And I'm among those who are dumb? What kind of weird-ass nonsense are you claiming here?
superrific said:
Leave everything alone.
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Are you concerned that Iran Is reading ZZLPolitics.com??
superrific said:
Meanwhile, you're still the guy who said it was ridiculous to think we would go to war with Venezuela. Or Iran.
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I don't consider what happened with Venezuela to be 'war'. I'm not surprised that you do.

I don't recall making any predictions about going to war with Iran. I could be wrong.
 
ZenMode said:
You have an opinion of why things happened how they did. I have a different opinion. You are no more right or wrong than I am.

And I'm among those who are dumb? What kind of weird-ass nonsense are you claiming here?

Are you concerned that Iran Is reading ZZLPolitics.com??

I don't consider what happened with Venezuela to be 'war'. I'm not surprised that you do.

I don't recall making any predictions about going to war with Iran. I could be wrong.
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When you and I disagree, I am almost always correct. Because your opinions are demonstrably stupid. And everyone here knows it.

The bit about you influencing world affairs was obviously a joke. I was riffing on the idea that you are always wrong.

You don't consider a forcible invasion of a country, resulting in the death of dozens of that country's soldiers, in order to kidnap their leader to be war? Of course *you* don't. On Planet Earth, that is called a war.
 
However this shakes out, the biggest winner of all is Israel, as Bibi was able to get Trump to attract 98% of the world's attention for the 6 weeks or so he needed to redraw his northern border and take 15% of Lebanon's land. He won't be giving that back.
 
sringwal said:
Getting the fuck out of a situation that we had no business being in in the first place.
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And what action worked to do that? As far as I can tell, Iran wanted the US to rein in Israel. the US reined in Israel. Iran opened the strait, like they said.

If the US had reined in Israel a week ago, the strait would have been opened last week.

I'm still failing to see what action you are describing as having worked. Other than pressure on Israel, which I would not consider a gamble nor something for the US to be proud of.
 
lawtig02 said:
This one was absolutely a mass casualty event for the Iranians and the Lebanese. That should matter, too.
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To an extent, yes, but I'm talking about "mass casualty" by a different degree than what you are speaking of. Admittedly, I'm not explaining my perspective on things as well as I should, but two weeks ago, I was preparing for a type of escalation that we have not seen America involved in since Korea and Vietnam, if not the two world wars. Any step off of that ledge needs to be celebrated, even while recognizing that the steps above it are now more damaged than it was when this fiasco began.
 
sringwal said:
To an extent, yes, but I'm talking about "mass casualty" by a different degree than what you are speaking of. Admittedly, I'm not explaining my perspective on things as well as I should, but two weeks ago, I was preparing for a type of escalation that we have not seen America involved in since Korea and Vietnam, if not the two world wars. Any step off of that ledge needs to be celebrated.
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I hear you, and I agree anything to avoid more killing, especially of civilians, is something to celebrate.
 
CFordUNC said:
I don’t think the gamble worked at all. I think we are in a significantly- far significantly- worse strategic spot as it pertains to Iran and the Middle East, than we were six weeks ago. We’ve gained absolutely nothing that we didn’t already have six weeks ago, and to do so we’ve lost dozens of American lives and hundreds of American wounded, lost untold billions of dollars of taxpayer money, lost untold billions of dollars of military weaponry and equipment, lost any semblance of ability to project true intimidation and strength, and are apparently going to pay Iran what essentially amounts to reparations on top of it all. All of this could have very easily been avoided if we did not have the absolute dumbest imbeciles in control of our ability to negotiate on the world stage.
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We have lost respect from our allies. Russia and China now see we are a paper tiger that can no longer project strength in the global community. Trump has been a loser his entire life, and now the global community is viewing us as a loser power.

Trump damaged our reputation in his first term, but Biden was able to restore respect in 4 years and reestablish our place as the powerful leader of the free world. If we are fortunate enough to return a competent president to the Oval Office and put in place a competent cabinet along with a team of competent advisors, then maybe that president could repair the enormous damage and restore the confidence from our allies and respect from our adversaries....but it may take two terms.
 
heelinhell said:
We have lost respect from our allies. Russia and China now see we are a paper tiger that can no longer project strength in the global community. Trump has been a loser his entire life, and now the global community is viewing us as a loser power.

Trump damaged our reputation in his first term, but Biden was able to restore respect in 4 years and reestablish our place as the powerful leader of the free world. If we are fortunate enough to return a competent president to the Oval Office and put in place a competent cabinet along with a team of competent advisors, then maybe that president could repair the enormous damage and restore the confidence from our allies and respect from our adversaries....but it may take two terms.
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It's stunning how isolated Trump has made us. Eighteen months ago, we were the leader of the free democratic world. Now, the only free democratic country I can think of that isn't pissed as hell at us is Israel.
 
If this affair somehow ends with us limiting future economic and military support of Israel, I will actually consider that a long-term strategic victory for the United States. Probably won’t happen, but a man can dream.

On the other hand, doing so might cause Bibi to fully release the Epstein files, so we may actually be looking at a win – win situation here either way!
 
sringwal said:
I have no idea. But something has led to descelation. And I don't think it was just The Pope's words, although those have certainly helped reframe the thinking, by some, of this conflict.
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I think it was Israel finally stopping. That's certainly the Occam's Razor version. Iran said it would open the strait when there was a cease fire in Lebanon. Now there is a cease-fire in Lebanon. And the strait is opening.
 
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