Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR

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fuheel said:
It seems like our main justification in attacking Iran is that Trump got bullied into doing so by Israel.
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No
They had dozens of obliterated Bombs that they were going hit us with in two weeks-with ICBMs they don;t have
 
Callatoroy said:
Do you feel like we can leave and let iran control the strait?
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Do you feel like "blow up civilian infrastructure and hope that Iran opens up the Strait voluntarily" is a good plan to remedy the situation?

My main point is simply that the Strait being closed is entirely Trump's fault. It wasn't closed before we attacked. He was warned that Iran would close the Strait if we attacked. We still attacked, with no real plan for how to reopen the Strait other than to harangue allies we didn't consult about the attacks in the first place into doing it themselves (and I guess threatening war crimes against Iran in hopes that they would just give up). So we are left in a situation where we have to spend more blood and treasure to try to get back to the pre-war status quo. A perfect illustration of the inability of the Trump admin to think strategically.
 
Callatoroy said:
Number 1 wasn't the reason we went to war with iran when we did. If that were the only reason, monitoring the bombed sites, then I would agree with you.
But israel was going and that made it necesary.

So an agreement that actually requires full access to all areas without weeks advance notice
Doesn't give them any type of path to enrichment ever
Where the US provides the tech for civilian nuclear use
iran agrees to end all financial and military support for proxies
iran agrees the control of the strait is a free passageway for commerce and management of the strait would be made up of a consortium of countries.

I can get on board with an agreement like that
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Gee, that sounds a lot like Obama's Iran deal. In fact, it's almost exactly the Obama deal. What you say about weeks of advance notice is not quite accurate. That was only if Iran objected to the inspection. Well, guess what -- if they normally allow inspections and then object to some of them, that will be suspicious. If they try to object to everything, that would arguably be non-compliance. No country in the world is going to allow outside inspectors to go wherever they want whenever they want. The implications for governance would be astounding.

So I will take this as an admission that Obama was right all along. Even if you think that somehow your proposed deal is "better" you'd have to explain why that improvement is worth what Trump has unleashed.

After Trump threatened to destroy the civilization, it's going to make that sort of diplomacy nigh well impossible.
 
Callatoroy said:
So what is the consensus here. Hoping he goes through with it so you guys can bitch about that, or hoping he delays so you can play the taco game? Either way its a win for you guys right. Is there a right option for trump today?
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It’s always best when Trump chickens out.
 
lawtig02 said:
Why? Even if we attacked when we did because we knew Israel was about to attack and we were worried about Iranian retaliation against our bases and personnel in the ME, what in the chart does that render inaccurate or misleading?
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The chart and the premise behind it is that we chose a path that led to those issues. Our hand was forced or we risked a worse situation. If you want to apply that chart to individual decisions that have been made then it gives a more nuanced context. Given the number of missions flown, the loss of life and equipment is phenomenally low. But that isn't the message you wanted to convey. As well, if we took no action, the price of oil was going to go up. We don't know at this point if the "new" regime is more terroristic. Read this morning that the son is in a coma and not involved in the decision making.
 
Callatoroy said:
So what is the consensus here. Hoping he goes through with it so you guys can bitch about that, or hoping he delays so you can play the taco game? Either way its a win for you guys right. Is there a right option for trump today?
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Not sure who you mean by "you guys." I will just assume anyone aware and able to admit what a fraud con man and habitual law breaker Trump haa been. But I will answer your question for myself.

My goal - Congress steps up and does it's job, and we immediately withdraw and stop bombing.

My "guess" for tonight is that one of two things will happen:

1) Trump will agree to just enough to allow for the inevitable 5th or 6th TACO of the war. A 2 to 4 week ceasefire to prop up stock and oil markets yet again.

2) Trump goes through with largest series of strikes yet. No civilization gone, and he declares victory for the 8th time. Uneducated MAGAts roar with approval and remind us that he is the chosen one sent by God. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
 
Callatoroy said:
The chart and the premise behind it is that we chose a path that led to those issues. Our hand was forced or we risked a worse situation. If you want to apply that chart to individual decisions that have been made then it gives a more nuanced context. Given the number of missions flown, the loss of life and equipment is phenomenally low. But that isn't the message you wanted to convey. As well, if we took no action, the price of oil was going to go up. We don't know at this point if the "new" regime is more terroristic. Read this morning that the son is in a coma and not involved in the decision making.
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Our hand was forced how?
And what do you mean, the price of oil was going to go up if we did nothing? you a commodities trader now?
 
superrific said:
Our hand was forced how?
And what do you mean, the price of oil was going to go up if we did nothing? you a commodities trader now?
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He ignores the fact that what lead to where we are now is a direct result of decisions Trump made in his first term.
 
rodoheel said:
Do you feel like "blow up civilian infrastructure and hope that Iran opens up the Strait voluntarily" is a good plan to remedy the situation?

My main point is simply that the Strait being closed is entirely Trump's fault. It wasn't closed before we attacked. He was warned that Iran would close the Strait if we attacked. We still attacked, with no real plan for how to reopen the Strait other than to harangue allies we didn't consult about the attacks in the first place into doing it themselves (and I guess threatening war crimes against Iran in hopes that they would just give up). So we are left in a situation where we have to spend more blood and treasure to try to get back to the pre-war status quo. A perfect illustration of the inability of the Trump admin to think strategically.
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Partially correct. The strait was going to close whether we attacked or not because that is their ultimate weapon outside of nukes.

I said I didn't think his promised bombing campaign would accomplish that goal. Are you in favor of leaving without it opening?
 
Callatoroy said:
The chart and the premise behind it is that we chose a path that led to those issues. Our hand was forced or we risked a worse situation. If you want to apply that chart to individual decisions that have been made then it gives a more nuanced context. Given the number of missions flown, the loss of life and equipment is phenomenally low. But that isn't the message you wanted to convey. As well, if we took no action, the price of oil was going to go up. We don't know at this point if the "new" regime is more terroristic. Read this morning that the son is in a coma and not involved in the decision making.
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What's the difference between "our hand was forced" and, to quote fuheel, to which you objected, "It seems like our main justification in attacking Iran is that Trump got bullied into doing so by Israel"?
 
Kraftyheel89 said:
Not sure who you mean by "you guys." I will just assume anyone aware and able to admit what a fraud con man and habitual law breaker Trump haa been. But I will answer your question for myself.

My goal - Congress steps up and does it's job, and we immediately withdraw and stop bombing.

My "guess" for tonight is that one of two things will happen:

1) Trump will agree to just enough to allow for the inevitable 5th or 6th TACO of the war. A 2 to 4 week ceasefire to prop up stock and oil markets yet again.

2) Trump goes through with largest series of strikes yet. No civilization gone, and he declares victory for the 8th time. Uneducated MAGAts roar with approval and remind us that he is the chosen one sent by God. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
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So you are good with iran controlling the strait?
 
lawtig02 said:
What's the difference between "our hand was forced" and, to quote fuheel, to which you objected, "It seems like our main justification in attacking Iran is that Trump got bullied into doing so by Israel"?
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He is saying because Iran had uranium enriched to 60% but will completely ignore how and why Iran went from 3% to 60%.
 
Callatoroy said:
So you are good with iran controlling the strait?
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You are asking the people who opposed this stupid war if they are okay with the strait being closed? Ask Trump, it was his actions that lead to it being closed.
Or ask yourself. You voted for this bullshit.
 
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