Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR

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wmheel1287 said:
OK, let's assume the motive is to undercut China. That would be a worthy pursuit. Why not make that case to the American people? Why lie (and it is an obvious lie) about Iranian nuclear capability?

Furthermore, there is no guarantee at all that simply bombing Iran leads somehow to less volatility in the Middle East. If one accepts the premise of this article that the US would be more able to combat China because of less need for attention on the Middle East, one has to assume that less attention will be necessary.

Many of us believe the exact opposite to be true. Many ofnus believe that this has set off a powder keg that will reverberate for years and years requiring the full attention of American military for the next decade. This says nothing of our reduced readiness and the reduced ability of our Gulf "allies" to defend themselves because of the expenditure of arms that take years (decades) to replace.

I fail to see how both China and Russia are not laughing their asses off at this development. China will just continue to buy the crude on the open market. That will dent their economy, sure, but it won't stall them and the overall cost to them will be FAR less than the American expenditure. China won't be hampered in their Taiwan pursuit by this. In my opinion, they will be emboldened.

This reeks of "doing something...anything... is always better than the status quo" which is absolutely not true.
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CFordUNC said:
I hear you, and definitely understand the sentiment, but if we are waiting for shitbirds like Ram and shit-for-brains like calla, and the millions of like-minded morons in the MAGA movement, to ever accept or acknowledge that they were wrong, we are going to be waiting forever. I think you are far too charitable about calla’s supposed belief that Donald Trump is a useful idiot. I do not believe for one solitary split second that calla disagrees with Trump on anything, no matter what he says here on this board. Nobody who actually thinks that Donald Trump is a useful idiot or disagrees with him would be so perpetually angry and aggrieved and lash out and project so intensely in defense of Trump‘s every move the way calla does. calla is a way too much of a chickenshit to actually have immutable principles and beliefs.

I also don’t believe that anyone in the MAGA cult will actually scapegoat Trump. They are too far dug in, and it is far too deeply a part of their entire identity now. More than likely, once Trump dies – which is hopefully soon- those people will just skulk back under their rocks and into their trailer parks as if nothing ever happened.

Those of us actual classical conservatives who were actually going to abandon Trump, did so no later than January 7, 2021.
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I keep coming back to the book "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-45" by Milton Mayer written in 1955. Mayer was living in Germany and interviewing Germans. The "Trump's base" style adherents to Nazism were, to a man, in 1955 still convinced that Hitler was the savior of Germany and was right to persecute Jews. Nothing about publicly exposing the death camps, gas chambers and crematoriums had been able to change their minds, even a decade later.

I think anyone holding their breath that the Trump base will ultimately "see the light" is going to die of oxygen starvation. We as a country have to start planning on how we are going to move on without them (and how we are going to handle them lashing out at the fact that we a re moving on without them).

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Could have sworn someone posted an opinion piece just a few hours ago this morning boasting about how ACKSHUALLY this war is a good thing because we're also kicking China's ass, too!
 
CFordUNC said:
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I’m sorry, how would that not be at least somewhat concerning and impact other dealings with Russia???

I get that we provide intel support to Ukraine but still this seems like something that would be taken more seriously than “who cares”.
 
nycfan said:


I’m sorry, how would that not be at least somewhat concerning and impact other dealings with Russia???

I get that we provide intel support to Ukraine but still this seems like something that would be taken more seriously than “who cares”.
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I saw a job application a several months back from someone who worked in a relatively innocuous role at DOGE. It was an immediate no. If you choose to work at DOGE, in any capacity, that's an absolute, automatic no.

I'm sure Leavitt will make a shit ton of money from Fox News or someone else when she's done with this. But holy hell, I can't imagine burning my bridges for all time with any reputable employer at such a young age.
 
CFordUNC said:
Did not realize that!
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Well, it's my opinion. The readers of the Grayzone sound like Putin puppets and repeat Kremlin talking points. They believe the West (USA and its allies) are entirely the problem and think Putin is a victim of NATO aggression, and is apparently a swell guy, rather than the evil tyrant he is. They are ultraleft wing (sometimes called the anti-imperialist left) and are so far out there they sound like the ultraright sometimes.
 
Bobfripp said:
Well, it's my opinion. The readers of the Grayzone sound like Putin puppets and repeat Kremlin talking points. They believe the West (USA and its allies) are entirely the problem and think Putin is a victim of NATO aggression, and is apparently a swell guy, rather than the evil tyrant he is. They are ultraleft wing (sometimes called the anti-imperialist left) and are so far out there they sound like the ultraright sometimes.
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That doesn’t compute.
 
lawtig02 said:
I'm starting to think about it this way. Trump is a property developer. That's all he knows. He's generally a shitty property developer who has, at best, ridden the back of New York's economic success over the last 50 years, but when it comes down to it, Trump doesn't know shit about policy. He doesn't know shit about international relations. He doesn't know shit about pretty much anything except building "permanent" memorials to his greatness.

Trump 2.0 is all about building those memorials. Some are literal -- the Oval Office, the Rose Garden, the ballroom, the arch, the Kennedy Center. Some are not -- "peace in the Middle East." Trump has no fucking clue whether a policy proposal is good or bad, whether it's in America's interest or not. But if someone comes to him and says, "Mr. President, if you do this, you'll be remembered forever," Trump is pretty much an automatic yes.

Bibi figured that out a long time ago. And that's why we're where we are. So, to answer your question, there's no end game. From Trump's perspective, the end game is eternal glory for solving the Middle East problem. But that's literally impossible, as everyone except Trump and a few of his naive supporters know. Bibi certainly knows the problem can't be solved -- at best, the lines can be redrawn for the battles to be fought by the next generation. But Trump is incapable of that type of long-term strategic thinking. And thus, here we are.

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Trump is working for Bibi and Putin.
 
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