Iran Catch-All | US-Iran talks begin

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RaiGuy said:
Israel attacked first, but it’s ok because Israel was preemptively defending itself.
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Israel didn’t attack first. Hezbollah has been launching missiles into Israel for quite some time. Iran has been launching attacks via proxies.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Israel didn’t attack first. Hezbollah has been launching missiles into Israel for quite some time. Iran has been launching attacks via proxies.
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I’m not going to keep going back and forth with you. You can keep believing their propaganda.

I remember I was visiting Beirut in 2002 and Israel was flying jets setting off sonic booms to try and scare people. They’ve been the bullies for years but always play the victim to the terrorists when in actuality, they’ve killed way more civilians in that region than anyone else.
 
RaiGuy said:
I’m not going to keep going back and forth with you. You can keep believing their propaganda.

I remember I was visiting Beirut in 2002 and Israel was flying jets setting off sonic booms to try and scare people. They’ve been the bullies for years but always play the victim to the terrorists when in actuality, they’ve killed way more civilians in that region than anyone else.
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So you support Hezbollah and Iran? I mean you have essentially stated as much already. Why not just embrace it?
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
So you support Hezbollah and Iran? I mean you have essentially stated as much already. Why not just embrace it?
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You have reading comprehension issues.

Let me play your game. So, you hate Iran?? Why are you an Islamophobe??
 
CNN just showed what looked to be cylindrical objects hitting the ground in Israel and exploding, about 6-7 or so, and they all looked the same. That did not appear to be shrapnel. If that is correct, it appears at least some of Iran's missiles impacted on Israeli territory.
 
Paine said:
I’m not going to respond to BattBoy’s dumb point because I know his position on this is unmovable. Curious to hear from you what makes you think this conflict is about religion?

The Houthis, Hezbollah, and Iran have all said that their attacks on Israel are directly because of Israel’s actions in Gaza and the West Bank.
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I agree with you...it's not about religion. It's about land, money and power.
 
Paine said:
This is about settler colonialism, not religion.
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I understand why critics of Israel want to ignore the Islamist ideologies of Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah which drive basically everything they do because it's an inconvenient aspect of the "Israel bad" mantra, but just because you ignore it doesn't mean it isn't true. Likewise, the settler movement is also based around the beliefs of Jewish Supremacists, who distort their religion as a way to give themselves permission to use violence for their ultimate goal of ethnically cleansing all Arabs from Palestine.

To say what's happening in the region (and what's been happening for hundreds of years) isn't about religion is just nonsensical.
 
Caribou said:
I understand why critics of Israel want to ignore the Islamist ideologies of Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah which drive basically everything they do because it's an inconvenient aspect of the "Israel bad" mantra, but just because you ignore it doesn't mean it isn't true. Likewise, the settler movement is also based around the beliefs of Jewish Supremacists, who distort their religion as a way to give themselves permission to use violence for their ultimate goal of ethnically cleansing all Arabs from Palestine.

To say what's happening in the region (and what's been happening for hundreds of years) isn't about religion is just nonsensical.
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It's really not been 100s of years .Back when Jews were being kicked out of Christendom throughout western Europe in the 14-1500s, they were welcomed in Muslim lands as being also People of the Book. Even when the Zionist movement started, mostly in eastern Europe, the Jews and Muslims didn't have a lot of conflict. Land and power is a large part of it. The use of religion to claim an ancestorial right to land and use that as a lever to muster Western allies against the Muslims was when religion came into play.

Remember that the Balfour Doctrine ,established after WWI , which established the idea of a homeland for the Jews, was a direct reward to Chaim Weizmann who was the chemist who basically created industrial fermentation to make explosives during that war when Britain was cut of from natural sources. That greatly endangered their war effort. In return, Weizmann, who was head of the Zionist organization asked for his reward. He earned it but it was a quid pro quo.
 
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The reports of impacts from the IDF and journalists is not matching the video record. Seems that both Tel Nof and Nevatim got hit. Wonder about impacts to the aircraft there. Regardless, I think attrition of ballistic assets is going to come in to play quickly. CIA estimates only gave Iran 1200 BM and they just used 1/8 of them. They can't reproduce them quickly. Likewise, the BMDs are already near critical for the IDF. They are reliant on the US and Germany for replacements.

In hindsight, Iran would have been better off to have unleashed Hamas and Hezbollah all in back in October. With them neutered, Iran is now entirely open for the IDF's full range of options. I think this gets much worse before it gets better.
 
How much of Iran's military supply has been sold off to Russia? One positive to Iran getting drawn in to this mess is they won't be able to supply Russia with weapons as effectively I would assume.
 
Caribou said:
I understand why critics of Israel want to ignore the Islamist ideologies of Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah which drive basically everything they do
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It's not ignoring them to point out that Islamists are always a minority.

They do have power in Iran right now, but part of the reason why they do is because of western hypocrisy wrt Muhammad Mossadegh. Hamas has power in Palestine too, and again, part of the reason why is the refusal of Israel to provide basic infrastructure to the people in Gaza, and their predilection for cavity searches in the west bank.

Muslims, Jews and Christians lived for centuries in relative peace under Ottoman rule. This isn't about religion.
 
TarSpiel said:
It's not ignoring them to point out that Islamists are always a minority.

They do have power in Iran right now, but part of the reason why they do is because of western hypocrisy wrt Muhammad Mossadegh. Hamas has power in Palestine too, and again, part of the reason why is the refusal of Israel to provide basic infrastructure to the people in Gaza, and their predilection for cavity searches in the west bank.

Muslims, Jews and Christians lived for centuries in relative peace under Ottoman rule. This isn't about religion.
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I've mentioned on old ZZLP threads that my dad was in Iran in the early 70s with the DoD. He came away in awe of the Persian people, especially their poetry. He fell in love with the people and culture. So sad what the mullah's did and continue to do to them and no doubt we share a large part of the blame.
 
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