Is this why Dem’s Approval Rating Polls are so bad?

[lawtig02]

Exactly. The status quo was not working. Pretty much all of the country felt that. MAGA is a tacit acknowledgment of that - but the changes they offer are shitty and will hurt many many more than they help.

Democrats can't expect to win by offering more of the same - they are extolling institutions that largely failed the people. They need some populism, and to stop fucking cowering about what right wing media will make of it - they'll call everything extremist socialism, even if it's a tepid compromise, so you might as well do the right goddamn thing anyways. Minnesota was the model - school lunches, legal weed, easy voting- but for some reason the centrists put Walz on the ticket and refused to let him cook.

Absolutely. But I don’t think what Minnesota was doing was particularly leftist, even compared to whatever counted for the national Democratic platform. They just got it done.

 

[Molotov Mocktail]

they'll call everything extremist socialism

Except for the government taking stakes in American companies and threatening companies if they don’t operate in a way the president wants.

 

[lawtig02]

The greatest lesson Dems need to learn from the last few months is that we must get shit done, no matter what it requires or what stands in our way. That’s what Trump and his minions have done. They don’t care about laws. They don’t care about polls. They don’t care about norms. They just do it anyway. Whenever and wherever Dems have power, we need to be doing the same thing.

I don’t care much who the candidate is in 2028. I just want his or her campaign slogan to be, “I’ll Get Shit Done for You.”

 

[SnoopRob]

The greatest lesson Dems need to learn from the last few months is that we must get shit done, no matter what it requires or what stands in our way. That’s what Trump and his minions have done. They don’t care about laws. They don’t care about polls. They don’t care about norms. They just do it anyway. Whenever and wherever Dems have power, we need to be doing the same thing.

I don’t care much who the candidate is in 2028. I just want his or her campaign slogan to be, “I’ll Get Shit Done for You.”

The problem with this view is that it’s far, far tougher to build things than to destroy things. Pubs don’t build anything, they merely destroy things. Dems have a much greater challenge in what they’re trying to accomplish and will naturally be less successful in these attempts.

 

[lawtig02]

The problem with this view is that it’s far, far tougher to build things than to destroy things. Pubs don’t build anything, they merely destroy things. Dems have a much greater challenge in what they’re trying to accomplish and will naturally be less successful in these attempts.

No doubt. We’ll almost need a Marshall Plan approach if we still have a nation in 3.5 years. Whatever it takes to rebuild a functional nation, atop the devastation of MAGA’s blitzkrieg on America.

 

[Zoo_View]

The problem with this view is that it’s far, far tougher to build things than to destroy things. Pubs don’t build anything, they merely destroy things. Dems have a much greater challenge in what they’re trying to accomplish and will naturally be less successful in these attempts.

Not to mention, it doesn’t take long to break government, as we’ve seen.

Building an effective EPA, NIH, CDC, Federal Reserve Board, Bureau of Labor and Statistics, SEC, FBI, DEA, ICE, Customs and Border Patrol, immigration courts, Veterans Administration, etc…….all that is BORING work and takes time.

Building an effective government is time-consuming, grinding, BORING work.

 

[lawtig02]

Not to mention, it doesn’t take long to break government, as we’ve seen.

Building an effective EPA, NIH, CDC, Federal Reserve Board, Bureau of Labor and Statistics, SEC, FBI, DEA, ICE, Customs and Border Patrol, immigration courts, Veterans Administration, etc…….all that is BORING work and takes time.

Building an effective government is time-consuming, grinding, BORING work.

Agree with all this. In 3.5 years, if we have a country, we’ll have given up at least 100 years of HARD work. But that doesn’t change the message, in my view. It’s going to be hard as hell to repair this. It’ll take time. But it has to start with the next president, and he/she will have to be willing to be as aggressive in rebuilding it as Trump and his supporters have been in tearing it down.

 

[BillOfRights]

Exactly. The status quo was not working. Pretty much all of the country felt that. MAGA is a tacit acknowledgment of that - but the changes they offer are shitty and will hurt many many more than they help.

Democrats can't expect to win by offering more of the same - they are extolling institutions that largely failed the people. They need some populism, and to stop fucking cowering about what right wing media will make of it - they'll call everything extremist socialism, even if it's a tepid compromise, so you might as well do the right goddamn thing anyways. Minnesota was the model - school lunches, legal weed, easy voting- but for some reason the centrists put Walz on the ticket and refused to let him cook.

Was "the status quo" not working, or was that the narrative that Republicans pushed along with their Zen-orgasm-inducing culture wars?

What should Biden and Democrats have done differently, given the flaming pile of shit that they inherited? They handled inflation better than other advanced democracies, the economy, jobs, and wages were growing faster than it did under trump and faster than most OECD countries, and any failures to do more to help were certainly hamstrung by Republicans.

1. People were pissed about inflation.
2. The US led by Democrats fared better than most others.
I would put it in the category of the majority of voters didn't have a good understanding of the issue. That has several causes.

1. Low information voters
2. Poor Democratic messaging
3. Relentless right-wing scapegoating
4.

 

[lawtig02]

Was "the status quo" not working, or was that the narrative that Republicans pushed along with their Zen-orgasm-inducing culture wars?

What should Biden and Democrats have done differently, given the flaming pile of shit that they inherited? They handled inflation better than other advanced democracies, the economy, jobs, and wages were growing faster than it did under trump and faster than most OECD countries, and any failures to do more to help were certainly hamstrung by Republicans.

1. People were pissed about inflation.
2. The US led by Democrats fared better than most others.
I would put it in the category of the majority of voters didn't have a good understanding of the issue. That has several causes.

1. Low information voters
2. Poor Democratic messaging
3. Relentless right-wing scapegoating
4.

Agree. No excuses going forward though. The Pubs have removed all rules. When we get power back, and we will, we can’t be constrained by the rules they’ve eliminated.

I see this in terms of the Social Contract. We had one. It was roughly defined by the constitution. MAGA has voided it. We have no social contract right now. Dems should always attempt to recreate one, hopefully an even better one, but in this moment, there’s nothing that constrains the ability of the party in power to do what it wills — Pubs for the benefit of the elite, or Dems for the benefit of the marginalized.

 

[akillesheel]

I would much prefer something fairly left, especially to fix what MAGA is destroying, but seeing as how US politics usually lags about 8-10 years behind European politics, can you identify a leftist movement that has succeeded over a substantial period of time in non-Scandinavian Europe? Seems to me a lurch to the left is just a recipe for a pendulum that swings wildly back and forth from one election to the next.

I do think bringing up leftism is moving the goalposts a little bit; all I said was that centrism was a failing ideology. That said, Cuba and China would probably count based on one's definition of leftism; Sheinbaum in Mexico just succeeded AMLO. That said, it would be a good start, as you've alluded to, if the Dems would just commit to legitimate liberalism, in the Minnesota or Liz Warren molds.

 

[lawtig02]

I do think bringing up leftism is moving the goalposts a little bit; all I said was that centrism was a failing ideology. That said, Cuba and China would probably count based on one's definition of leftism; Sheinbaum in Mexico just succeeded AMLO. That said, it would be a good start, as you've alluded to, if the Dems would just commit to legitimate liberalism, in the Minnesota or Liz Warren molds.

Well, we did just nominate the governor of Minnesota as VP.

The difference is that Walz and Minnesota Dems pulled no punches in getting shit done, even with a very thin majority. That HAS to happen nationally.