Israel assaults Iran, pounds Lebanon, Hezbollah

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CLT Heel said:
ESPECIALLY when the people are citizens of groups or countries that actively are against us and our way of life.
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I don’t understand what this means. Palestinians are citizens of which country that is “actively…against us and our way of life?” I don’t disagree that the surrounding Muslim countries need to stand up, but this statement confuses me.
 
CLT Heel said:
I hesitate to type this because I don’t want to sound cold and callous about it, but…. I agree with your sentiments that the citizens in both those cases need both physical and mental relief. However, it should not be the job of the US to be the relief arm for an entire world, ESPECIALLY when the people are citizens of groups or countries that actively are against us and our way of life. Sadly, I don’t see any of the surrounding Muslim countries working to assist in any significant and meaningful way to support either of those groups, and it should be them first and foremost who help out.

I honestly hate that I feel that way, because I fully believe that those civilians want the same thing I do - to live a meaningful and peaceful life with those I love. We just can’t be all things to all people.
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Oh, I agree with all that, hence my Not In My Back Yard comment. It's not that we haven't been a bit of an enabler but it's not really either a responsibility or an obligation for us to fix it. I wouldn't mind following along but not leading. If that doesn't work, I'm fine with getting out of the way.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
Israel is doing what so many others won’t do and good for them. Quit painting around the edges. You have to end these terrorist groups.
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If it were just terrorists, I wouldn't have much issue. Israel's loosely inclusive definition of terrorism and international laws has lost me. Stilling willing to step up to prevent them being overrun but, IRL, that possibility pretty much ended when Israel entered the Bomb Club in the mid 60s. I would really like to sever our alliance and become a neutral. I have no earthly idea what we have and will ever get out of this involvement with them.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
The world is full of bad guys and worse guys. You have to choose who to put your weight behind. Israel is full of bad guys but as long as they are better than the worst - go with it. And i think they are.
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This is 100% it. Perfection cannot be the standard. We have long partnered with people or countries that do things that we may disagree with because they are better than the alternative.
 
Cannot believe they got Nazrallah. I read that they used over 80 bunker busters in that one location to guarantee his end.

However you feel about what's happened after October 7th, you have to admit that the Israelis had a plan regarding Hezbollah and have executed it to perfection. The entire leadership of Hezbollah has been wiped out in basically 10 days. Un-freakin-real.

Just read that the Ayatollah in Iran has been taken to a safe location, for fear that the IDF is coming for him next.

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HintonJamesHeel said:
The world is full of bad guys and worse guys. You have to choose who to put your weight behind. Israel is full of bad guys but as long as they are better than the worst - go with it. And i think they are.
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What the hell is wrong with telling them they are on their own? Why do we have to or even want to be part on this? What's in it for us?

They may be better but it's such a low bar that I don't care to pay the moral or physical price to support them or anybody else in the ME any more. I can see doing what's necessary to keep the Camp David accords working, if nothing else, just from the curiosity factor. Even with its flaws and warts , it's probably the closest thing to a workable agreement to ever come out of that mess.
 
finesse said:
What the hell is wrong with telling them they are on their own? Why do we have to or even want to be part on this? What's in it for us?

They may be better but it's such a low bar that I don't care to pay the moral or physical price to support them or anybody else in the ME any more. I can see doing what's necessary to keep the Camp David accords working, if nothing else, just from the curiosity factor. Even with its flaws and warts , it's probably the closest thing to a workable agreement to ever come out of that mess.
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You could almost say that about any conflict (Ukraine, etc.). A country needs partners. You have to choose a side - bad or worse. If you don’t choose, when the worse folks come for you, which they will, then no one will help you.
 
finesse said:
What the hell is wrong with telling them they are on their own? Why do we have to or even want to be part on this? What's in it for us?

They may be better but it's such a low bar that I don't care to pay the moral or physical price to support them or anybody else in the ME any more. I can see doing what's necessary to keep the Camp David accords working, if nothing else, just from the curiosity factor. Even with its flaws and warts , it's probably the closest thing to a workable agreement to ever come out of that mess.
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Their enemies are our enemies. They are taking out a lot of people who would love to harm us.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
You could almost say that about any conflict (Ukraine, etc.). A country needs partners. You have to choose a side - bad or worse. If you don’t choose, when the worse folks come for you, which they will, then no one will help you.
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They are one of the most, if not the most, polarizing countries in the world to support. One of the reasons so many terrorists hate us is because of the number of times we've covered Israel's ass because of our veto in the UN. I don't want to be their sugar daddy any more. I don't like the screwing we get from them. They sell our secrets, treat us with contempt because we're such a pushover for them and they don't die in our battles, although they killed our sailors when they bombed the Liberty. It's too "polarizing" for them to actually send soldiers to anywhere we're fighting. Who needs those friends?

This is not like supporting the Ukraine or anybody else, except maybe Taiwan.
 
finesse said:
They are one of the most, if not the most, polarizing countries in the world to support. One of the reasons so many terrorists hate us is because of the number of times we've covered Israel's ass because of our veto in the UN. I don't want to be their sugar daddy any more. I don't like the screwing we get from them. They sell our secrets, treat us with contempt because we're such a pushover for them and they don't die in our battles, although they killed our sailors when they bombed the Liberty. It's too "polarizing" for them to actually send soldiers to anywhere we're fighting. Who needs those friends?

This is not like supporting the Ukraine or anybody else, except maybe Taiwan.
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They are polarizing but part of it is absolutely because they are Jewish. There are other aspects to it but countries should absolutely push against the anti-Semitic aspect of the hate.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
They are polarizing but part of it is absolutely because they are Jewish. There are other aspects to it but countries should absolutely push against the anti-Semitic aspect of the hate.
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That's such a dumb argument. The people in Gaza and Lebanon have as much right to the claim of being Semite as the Israelis do. The only Abrahamic religion that doesn't is Christianity and they feel like Paul stole it fair and square. After all , Jesus died a Jew.

This has nothing to do with them being Jewish. It's about them turning into jackasses over the last 50 years. I was a diehard supporter into 20s and then they started getting meaner. Tougher didn't bother me. the meanness did and has more and more. I'm sick of it and sick of being seen to support it.

Once again, what's in it for us?
 
finesse said:
That's such a dumb argument. The people in Gaza and Lebanon have as much right to the claim of being Semite as the Israelis do. The only Abrahamic religion that doesn't is Christianity and they feel like Paul stole it fair and square. After all , Jesus died a Jew.

This has nothing to do with them being Jewish. It's about them turning into jackasses over the last 50 years. I was a diehard supporter into 20s and then they started getting meaner. Tougher didn't bother me. the meanness did and has more and more. I'm sick of it and sick of being seen to support it.

Once again, what's in it for us?
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They are a check on a nuclear Iran and a dangerous Syrian regime. They are a westernized democracy surrounded by Islamist theocracies. Their values align closely with our own. Their enemies are our enemies. There is plenty in it for us.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
They are a check on a nuclear Iran and a dangerous Syrian regime. They are a westernized democracy surrounded by Islamist theocracies. Their values align closely with our own. Their enemies are our enemies. There is plenty in it for us.
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Nothing worth this cost. It's fine if you want to believe this but something actually fact based would go a long way when you try to sell it.

Think I'm about done with you under any name. Turns out it wasn't the blue cups.
 
finesse said:
Nothing worth this cost. It's fine if you want to believe this but something actually fact based would go a long way when you try to sell it.

Think I'm about done with you under any name. Turns out it wasn't the blue cups.
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“I happen to disagree with you here, so I’m just done talking to you in general.” Says much more about you than it does me. If you want nothing more than an echo chamber that is certainly your choice. What a boring existence that would be, but I guess you might feel safer that way.
 
finesse said:
Nothing worth this cost. It's fine if you want to believe this but something actually fact based would go a long way when you try to sell it.

Think I'm about done with you under any name. Turns out it wasn't the blue cups.
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It’s money for us. It is absolutely worth the cost.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
It’s money for us. It is absolutely worth the cost.
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How close does it come to covering the 158 billion in direct military aid we've given them. That doesn't count what they made selling our stuff to the Chinese and who knows who else.

Do you think they'd quit guarding against the terrorists if we ended most of our support? Do you think they'd change (or could change) their government more than they have? If they would, are they the friends we need? What's really in it for us and not this specious rhetoric you and the other guy are spewing?
 
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