Israel assaults Iran, pounds Lebanon, Hezbollah

[Geisterfahrer]

Yeah that's what he said. I find it mostly bullshit. If you are going to write about a subject and you are going to make significant claims about the subject and try to speak with authority - you should at least seek out other perspectives.

Why? What he’s written is not contradicted by an Israeli point of view. The West Bank is an occupation that has become a system of segregation, deprivation and forced removal. It is Israeli state policy to expand settlements, seize land, and coerce exile. Do we need the Israeli settler perspective to boside this and tell us why it’s necessary?

You don’t like what Coates is showing so you hang your hat on this bullshit lack of Israeli perspective.

 

[p5mmr9]

Coates spent a considerable amount of time conflating the settler movement in the West Bank and east Jerusalem and the general population of Israel. So, are you referencing "settler colonialism" in the West Bank or is this a general condemnation of the creation of Israel overall?

And Coates himself notes he did not have any experience on the issue until his trip (and made reference to this lack of experience as the very reason for the trip). So, I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say here. He started with a preconceived "hypothesis" of the situation and sought sources that would confirm his hypothesis.

Interest in what Coates has to say will vary - I his thoughts lacking on the subject.

 

[p5mmr9]

Why? What he’s written is not contradicted by an Israeli point of view. The West Bank is an occupation that has become a system of segregation, deprivation and forced removal. It is Israeli state policy to expand settlements, seize land, and coerce exile. Do we need the Israeli settler perspective to boside this and tell us why it’s necessary?

You don’t like what Coates is showing so you hang your hat on this bullshit lack of Israeli perspective.

He doesn't just reference the occupation in the West Bank. Nor is he just talking about the settler movement. His glancing discussions of demographics speak to the very existence of the Jewish state. I'm not sure why you didn't pick up on this.

Coates isn't showing anything new or insightful. Jimmy Carter called the West Bank an apartheid. This isn't a new idea. I don't like what Coates says because - well, I'm not going to repeat myself over and over. I've already said a few times on this thread what I think. You can take it or leave it.

 

[Paine]

Coates spent a considerable amount of time conflating the settler movement in the West Bank and east Jerusalem and the general population of Israel. So, are you referencing "settler colonialism" in the West Bank or is this a general condemnation of the creation of Israel overall?

And Coates himself notes he did not have any experience on the issue until his trip (and made reference to this lack of experience as the very reason for the trip). So, I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say here. He started with a preconceived "hypothesis" of the situation and sought sources that would confirm his hypothesis.

Interest in what Coates has to say will vary - I his thoughts lacking on the subject.

Israel began as a settler colonial state. I’m not just referring to the current settlements in the West Bank, and neither is Coates.

Whatever point you’re trying to make is incomprehensible. The whole point is that Coates’ preconceived notions were challenged by his visit to the West Bank.

 

[p5mmr9]

Israel began as a settler colonial state. I’m not just referring to the current settlements in the West Bank, and neither is Coates.

Israel did not begin as a settler colonial state. And yeah - I know Coates would be more than happy for Israel to be wiped from the map. He made that pretty clear on Ezra Klein's podcast.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

Coates spent a considerable amount of time conflating the settler movement in the West Bank and east Jerusalem and the general population of Israel. So, are you referencing "settler colonialism" in the West Bank or is this a general condemnation of the creation of Israel overall?

And Coates himself notes he did not have any experience on the issue until his trip (and made reference to this lack of experience as the very reason for the trip). So, I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say here. He started with a preconceived "hypothesis" of the situation and sought sources that would confirm his hypothesis.

Interest in what Coates has to say will vary - I his thoughts lacking on the subject.

I view the state of Israel as a settled question and don’t see value in engaging in questions of the moral legitimacy of the state of Israel. In other words, I’m properly a Zionist.

But the state of the West Bank and the Palestinian question have become a flaming trash dump in geopolitics, and I put the lion’s share of the blame for this on Bibi and his psychotic government and the settler policy for decades running.

Americans simply do not understand the vast gulf between a Palestinian village and even a relatively new settler outpost established a click (or less) away. To me this is where Coates is coming from, and I’m fine with him thus narrowing the scope.

 

[Paine]

Israel did not begin as a settler colonial state. And yeah - I know Coates would be more than happy for Israel to be wiped from the map. He made that pretty clear on Ezra Klein's podcast.

Israel didn’t begin as colonial settler state? Despite the founder of the Zionist movement using the dispossession of Native Americans as a model for the formation of Israel?

Despite the fact that a settler colonial empire arbitrarily carved a new state out of an existing land and its people?

What else is it called when a foreign population moves in to an area, disposes the native people of their land, and invents systems of discrimination and regimentation to impose onto the native population?

 

[StrangePackage]

It certainly is HIS pre-conceived notion. Israel is not America and the Palestinians are not former slaves from Africa.

I always found Dick Vitale to be obnoxious but it wasn't because he described Dean Smith as the Michelangelo of college basketball despite the fact that Dean Smith was not a long dead Renaissance artist from Italy.

Are you saying that Dean Smith isn't the Michelangelo of college basketball?

 

[ZZLPHeel]

Reposting for those who missed it due to board quirks:
Columbia's pro-Hamas groups have now openly endorsed murdering Jewish people wherever they may be:

Pro-Palestinian Group at Columbia Now Backs ‘Armed Resistance’ by Hamas

Columbia University Apartheid Divest has withdrawn an apology it made last spring for a member who said “Zionists don’t deserve to live.”

www.nytimes.com

 

[ZenMode]

Report: Hamas Planned 9/11 Style Explosion Of Tel Aviv Skyscraper

The Washington Post revealed further details uncovered in the secret documents captured by IDF forces in Hamas command centers in Gaza.

For years, Hamas leaders had planned an even deadlier terror assault on Israel than the one it perpetrated on October 7, including Sept. 11-style toppling of Tel Aviv skyscrapers.

Some of the plans were carried out on October 7 but others were more aspirational, including the plan to bring down a Tel Aviv skyscraper. Hamas could not determine how to bring down the skyscraper, continuing that targeting Israel’s rail system and using it to transport terrorists and powerful bombs was more practical.

Documents were found detailing Hamas’s advanced plans for attacks using trains, boats and even horse-drawn chariots and carrying out a combined assault on Israel on multiple fronts with the help of Iran and Hezbollah from the north, south, and east.

The documents reveal that Hamas assumed that once it launched a successful initial attack on Israel, Iran and Hezbollah would eagerly join in, stating that a key part of any operation would be “linking and preparing the external fronts (Lebanon, Syria, and Sinai) and agreeing on mechanisms for communicating peacefully and in war.”

The report added that Sinwar was “crystal clear” about his ultimate intention: the destruction of the state of Israel – reiterating his goal multiple times and repeatedly pressuring Iran to aid the terror group in its goal of wiping out the Jewish state.

Report: Hamas Planned 9/11 Style Explosion Of Tel Aviv Skyscraper

The Washington Post revealed further details uncovered in the secret documents captured by IDF forces in Hamas command centers in Gaza. For years, Hamas leaders had planned an even deadlier terror assault on Israel than the one it perpetrated on October 7, including Sept. 11-style toppling of...

www.theyeshivaworld.com

 

[nycfan]

 

[superrific]

Reposting for those who missed it due to board quirks:
Columbia's pro-Hamas groups have now openly endorsed murdering Jewish people wherever they may be:

Pro-Palestinian Group at Columbia Now Backs ‘Armed Resistance’ by Hamas

Columbia University Apartheid Divest has withdrawn an apology it made last spring for a member who said “Zionists don’t deserve to live.”

www.nytimes.com

So what? Fifty to a hundred kooks have no power and no influence. They are, I would imagine, mostly grad students who have stalled out on their dissertations and are not long for Columbia's campus.

 

[rodoheel]

Reposting for those who missed it due to board quirks:
Columbia's pro-Hamas groups have now openly endorsed murdering Jewish people wherever they may be:

Pro-Palestinian Group at Columbia Now Backs ‘Armed Resistance’ by Hamas

Columbia University Apartheid Divest has withdrawn an apology it made last spring for a member who said “Zionists don’t deserve to live.”

www.nytimes.com

Hello, generic username making first post on this board who is definitely not trolling. Whatever you think of the Columbia student movement, nothing in that article supported the idea that they have called for "murdering Jewish people wherever they may be."

 

[ZZLPHeel]

So what? Fifty to a hundred kooks have no power and no influence. They are, I would imagine, mostly grad students who have stalled out on their dissertations and are not long for Columbia's campus.

You don't think 50-100 students openly supporting the murder of Jewish people is a big deal? Do you think that those students should be allowed on campus?

 

[ZZLPHeel]

Hello, generic username making first post on this board who is definitely not trolling. Whatever you think of the Columbia student movement, nothing in that article supported the idea that they have called for "murdering Jewish people wherever they may be."

This is an alternate account for 2ManyBlueCups that I am using with the knowledge and blessing of Rock while we try to get some quirks figured out with my initial account. Not trying to be sneaky.

Did you read the article? The leader of the protest who was suspended after telling leaders that they are "lucky I'm not out murdering zionists right now" has doubled down on his language, as has his group. This is vile, violent rhetoric, and it would not surprise me if one or more of these people took action.

From the article:

“We support liberation by any means necessary, including armed resistance,” the group, Columbia University Apartheid Divest, said in its statement revoking the apology.
The group marked the anniversary of the Oct. 7 attack on Israel by distributing a newspaper with a headline that used Hamas’s name for it: “One Year Since Al-Aqsa Flood, Revolution Until Victory,” it read, over a picture of Hamas fighters breaching the security fence to Israel. And the group posted an essay calling the attack a “moral, military and political victory” and quoting Ismail Haniyeh, the assassinated former political leader of Hamas.

“The Palestinian resistance is moving their struggle to a new phase of escalation and it is our duty to meet them there,” the group wrote on Oct. 7 on Telegram. “It is our duty to fight for our freedom!”
The Columbia group’s increasingly radical statements are being mirrored by pro-Palestinian groups on other college campuses, including in a series of social media posts this week that praised the Oct. 7 attack. They also reflect the influence of more extreme protest groups off campus, like Within Our Lifetime, that support violent attacks against Israel.

“Long live October 7th,” Nerdeen Kiswani, the head of Within Our Lifetime, wrote on X on Tuesday.
Students for Justice in Palestine, a pro-Palestinian student group that has chapters at hundreds of colleges across the country, was among the groups whose members posted praise for the Oct. 7 attack.
“Al-Aqsa Flood was a historic act of resistance against decades of occupation, apartheid, and settler colonial violence,” the Brown chapter of Students for Justice in Palestine posted on Instagram.
Citing revolutionary thinkers, like Vladimir Lenin and Frantz Fanon, it explained how solidarity was essential with members of the so-called Axis of Resistance — which includes Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis and Hamas — because they oppose imperialism.

Since then, the group has praised a Tel Aviv attack by Palestinian militants that killed seven people at a light rail station on Oct. 1, including a mother who died while shielding her 9-month-old baby. It also praised Iran’s missile attack on the Jewish state that began that evening, calling it a “bold move.”
On Tuesday, the group said it rescinded an apology it made last spring about the behavior of Khymani James, a student who had said in a disciplinary hearing that “Zionists don’t deserve to live,” and, “Be grateful that I’m not just going out and murdering Zionists.”

“We let you down,” the group wrote in a statement, referring to Mr. James. No longer, the group vowed, would it “pander to liberal media to make the movement for liberation palatable.”

Mr. James, who is suing Columbia over his ongoing suspension, thanked the group. “I will not allow anyone to shame me for my politics,” he wrote on social media. “Anything I said, I meant it.”

 

[finesse]

You don't think 50-100 students openly supporting the murder of Jewish people is a big deal? Do you think that those students should be allowed on campus?

I think the university should make an individual decision about each and every one of them and not be panicked into a collective guilt reaction. I tend to mistrust a collective anything.

 

[ZZLPHeel]

I think the university should make an individual decision about each and every one of them and not be panicked into a collective guilt reaction. I tend to mistrust a collective anything.

Fair enough. Do you think that the groups openly calling for terrorist attacks should be allowed on campus? And do you understand why students might feel threatened when there are groups of people publicly calling for such attacks who go to class with them? If someone from the Sons of Confederate Veterans got into UNC and then told administrators "you're lucky I'm not out here murdering Black people", and that person's organization supported those comments, do you think that group would retain a right to be on campus?

 

[superrific]

You don't think 50-100 students openly supporting the murder of Jewish people is a big deal? Do you think that those students should be allowed on campus?

I don't know what Columbia should do. It's not really my business, is it? I don't know the details. I don't know about Columbia's expulsion process. I don't like making snap judgments about things I know nothing about.

I would say that, as a general matter, it's bad for colleges to have speakers or students who advocate murder. As far as I can see, there was one such student at Columbia who said something like that. Then he retracted it, and then the group de-retracted it (not sure how they can; I don't think the student was speaking for the organization in either instance). I feel comfortable saying that rhetoric like killing Zionists is neither productive nor moral. Beyond that, I have no comment because I don't know the facts. Neither do you, and this gets to a difference between us.

 

[superrific]

I know Coates would be more than happy for Israel to be wiped from the map. He made that pretty clear on Ezra Klein's podcast.

This language of "wiped from the map" is really noxious. You're trying to use rhetoric to make a substantive point and it's disingenuous.

I'm fairly confident that Coates would not be more than happy for Israel to be "wiped from the map" with the violence implied by that term. That's not at all the same as advocacy pertaining to the desirability of a one-state, Jewish state in that area.

And yes, I'm aware that some of the people who, in your scenario, would do the wiping would have as much compunction as ISIL. But that's sort of a different point. You can say that, in your view, Israel should cease to exist without committing to rampant violence as the means for that.

 

[nycfan]