Israel assaults Iran, pounds Lebanon, Hezbollah

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Paine said:
en.wikipedia.org

South Africa's genocide case against Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I’ll trust the experts over some random posters on the ZZL.
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Trust the math. If there is a genocide occurring, it's the most inept execution in history. IF Israel wanted to commit genocide....and I mean truly wipe everyone out...they could. There's no reason to believe they want to. Instances of terrible war crimes, to whatever degree they exist, aren't genocide.

Gaza-population-735x1024.jpg
 
Paine said:
Yeah really. Is there anything the mods can do about people registering multiple accounts?
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If you are referring to me, the reason is because someone or something keeps blocking me from using the site. I can’t view the site at all under the ZZLPHeel account anymore. Once I log out, I can view the site just fine. I’ve been assured that I have not been banned so I have no idea what is going on.
 
ZenMode said:
Trust the math. If there is a genocide occurring, it's the most inept execution in history. IF Israel wanted to commit genocide....and I mean truly wipe everyone out...they could. There's no reason to believe they want to. Instances of terrible war crimes, to whatever degree they exist, aren't genocide.

Gaza-population-735x1024.jpg
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Huh? The chart ends at 2023, before the genocide started. What’s the point of it?
 
RaiGuy said:
Huh? The chart ends at 2023, before the genocide started. What’s the point of it?
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The current death toll is 42k with 10k missing. Do those numbers, given that there are 15k per square mile and nearly 2.4 million civilians total, meet the requirement for genocide in your opinion?
 
ZenMode said:
The current death toll is 42k with 10k missing. Do those numbers, given that there are 15k per square mile and nearly 2.4 million civilians total, meet the requirement for genocide in your opinion?
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First, the real number is much higher as many are still missing. Second, what does the number have to reach for it to match your definition of a genocide?

These are what the UN counts in it’s definition (Israel is doing these):

This can include:
  • Killing members of the group
  • Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
  • Deliberately inflicting conditions of life that will lead to the group's physical destruction
    • Imposing measures to prevent births within the group
    • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
 
RaiGuy said:
First, the real number is much higher as many are still missing. Second, what does the number have to reach for it to match your definition of a genocide?

These are what the UN counts in it’s definition (Israel is doing these):

This can include:
  • Killing members of the group
  • Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
  • Deliberately inflicting conditions of life that will lead to the group's physical destruction
    • Imposing measures to prevent births within the group
    • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
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We don't know the exact numbers and won't for a long time, most likely.

Do you believe the current data reflects an attempt at genocide by Israel?
 
ZenMode said:
We don't know the exact numbers and won't for a long time, most likely.

Do you believe the current data reflects an attempt at genocide by Israel?
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100%
Especially when you add in the genocidal rhetoric by Netanyahu and his cronies. They aren’t hiding it. Palestinians in northern Gaza were just cleared out and as they exited, the soldiers told them that would be the last time they would step foot there.

It’s clear from the start that Netanyahu plans to clear out Gaza to build more settlements and to gain access to the natural gas that is below it. It was clear as day.
 
RaiGuy said:
100%
Especially when you add in the genocidal rhetoric by Netanyahu and his cronies. They aren’t hiding it. Palestinians in northern Gaza were just cleared out and as they exited, the soldiers told them that would be the last time they would step foot there.

It’s clear from the start that Netanyahu plans to clear out Gaza to build more settlements and to gain access to the natural gas that is below it. It was clear as day.
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Below 2% is a really low bar. Obviously you can set it wherever you want, but I'd be curious where you draw the line.
 
ZenMode said:
Below 2% is a really low bar. Obviously you can set it wherever you want, but I'd be curious where you draw the line.
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Israel is the number one cause of children’s death in the world right now. That, by itself, should be a sign to anyone that they crossed the line.
Have you seen any of the raw footage after a bombing? It is very clear that they want to cause maximum damage and to scare people away. They want to make the area uninhabitable. In addition to killing people, they are purposefully destroying the architecture. Why would they demolish empty universities? Why would they destroy mosques, churches, schools, bakeries, markets, etc…? Why would they completely destroy roads? This goes far beyond targeting Hamas. They came in with the intention of wiping the area out to resettle it themselves. To do that, there needs to be no Palestinians left. So they either need to be killed or forced out and they will have nothing to return to.

The line was crossed a long time ago.
 
RaiGuy said:
Israel is the number one cause of children’s death in the world right now. That, by itself, should be a sign to anyone that they crossed the line.
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The problem is that you are looking at results and attributing intent without considering the circumstances. IF Israel truly had intent to kill civilians/children, they could have literally leveled Gaza and killed nearly the entire population long ago.

Hamas killed 1000 civilians in about 8 hours with only knives and hand-held guns. Why do you think, relative to Hamas, so few civilians have been killed in over a year, despite Israel having the capability to kill every person in Gaza by now?
Have you seen any of the raw footage after a bombing? It is very clear that they want to cause maximum damage and to scare people away. They want to make the area uninhabitable. In addition to killing people, they are purposefully destroying the architecture. Why would they demolish empty universities? Why would they destroy mosques, churches, schools, bakeries, markets, etc…? Why would they completely destroy roads? This goes far beyond targeting Hamas. They came in with the intention of wiping the area out to resettle it themselves. To do that, there needs to be no Palestinians left. So they either need to be killed or forced out and they will have nothing to return to.

The line was crossed a long time ago.
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We know that Hamas built miles of tunnels under a civilian population, including all of the structures you mentioned. We also know that Hamas uses civilian structures as military locations. What would you suggest Israel do when they are fighting an enemy who doesn't follow accepted (any humane) rules of war?
 
Being as charitable as I possibly can, Zen is arguing semantics between whether Israel is prosecuting a genocide or an ethnic cleansing campaign. How valiant.

No matter how many times he’s presented with evidence, he still seems to think history started on 10/7/23. It’s lazy and downright ignorant to argue this much on this thread with us and not even bother to read the fucking Wikipedia page about the history of Israel.

It’s not the argument you think it is to say that Israel could’ve killed all the Palestinians if they wanted to.
 
This doctor refused to evacuate the hospital because he didn’t want to leave his patients (including incubated babies), so Israel proceeds to kill his teenage son.

 
RaiGuy said:
This doctor refused to evacuate the hospital because he didn’t want to leave his patients (including incubated babies), so Israel proceeds to kill his teenage son.

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It's great that he took time from being a doctor, helping people injured in the war, mourning the (alleged) loss of his son, etc to gather his friends to shoot a video for Twitter.
 
ZenMode said:
It's great that he took time from being a doctor, helping people, mourning the (alleged) loss of his son, etc to gather his friends to shoot a video for Twitter.
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Wtf are you talking about? What video did he shoot? Are you referring to the one where they’re doing the funeral prayers for his murdered son? Just another xenophobic comment by you, not surprising.
 
RaiGuy said:
Wtf are you talking about? What video did he shoot? Are you referring to the one where they’re doing the funeral prayers for his murdered son? Just another xenophobic comment by you, not surprising.
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Xenophobic? This has nothing to do with the race or nationality of the people in the video or shooting the video. It has to do with the actions.

I've gone to funerals for deceased friends and relatives. There is not a chance in the world I would allow somebody to a shoot video of it or be posted on social media. Of course, I don't use funerals to try to win PR battles around the world, either.
 
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