Israel assaults Iran, pounds Lebanon, Hezbollah

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2ManyBlueCups said:
It is fairly easy to deduce that people using a pager that was bought by Hezbollah and distributed by Hezbollah to its members because Hezbollah’s chief terrorist told them to stop using cell phones are Hezbollah. You don’t just buy a Hezbollah pager at radio shack. The girl who was killed heard her father’s Hezbollah pager going off and picked it up.

Lebanon wasn’t attacked by terrorists. Lots of Lebanese were thrilled by the operation because they hate Hezbollah too. This operation will go down in military history as one of the greatest sabotage operations of all time. Hezbollah has at least temporarily been castrated (quite literally in some cases).
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Lots of Lebanese people were thrilled?? How many Lebanese people do you know?
 
NCK9 said:
Imagine what they could do to an electric (or gas powered) car given that most are connected to the internet via cellular networks these days.

Edit to add: how about a separate thread to rehash a 50 year old war?
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There is a conspiracy about the death of journalist Michael Hastings that his vehicle was controlled from the outside and driven into a tree at high speed.
 
RaiGuy said:
How is this not considered an act of terror? Detonating explosives on people in crowded areas, homes, groceries, hospitals, etc… is an act of terrorism and should he condemned. If it was the other way around, how would people be reacting?
Of the 12 people killed yesterday, 2 were children and 4 were healthcare workers. Those pagers weren’t just used by Hezbollah.
What if one of the people with the pagers happened to be on a plane?
The people in Lebanon are traumatized by the coordinated explosions. However, the civilian victims are just a footnote and their lives don’t matter because they have been dehumanized over time.
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I think you have a very good point here.

I will say that, as far as I've seen, the question of whether or not these pagers/walkie-talkies were available to the general public or whether or not they all went to Hezbollah members is still open.

There's certainly a lot left to be learned about what has happened here. But I think you have a great point about collateral damage.
 
RaiGuy said:
Lots of Lebanese people were thrilled?? How many Lebanese people do you know?
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I don't know blue cups, but I did play pickleball tonight with the regular gang. 2 of the guys are Lebanese. Granted, they are Maronites and left in the early 80s. They both still have some family in the north but both hate Hezbollah. They also hate Israel. But most of their disgust is for the Palestinians. They loathe them. What I don't understand, is when I bring up the Druze, they get very agitated. They also really hate them. Come to think of it, I don't know who they like, but they are really good fellas otherwise. Both PhDs.
 
Geisterfahrer said:
I know some and they definitely don’t like Hezbollah, generally because of the whole theocratic dictatorship thing.
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Yeah, I wasn’t implying they all supported Hezbollah, but they did not want Israel to randomly detonate explosives that killed/hurt civilians. The Lebanese people have been through a lot of trauma over the years.
 
Batt Boy said:
I don't know blue cups, but I did play pickleball tonight with the regular gang. 2 of the guys are Lebanese. Granted, they are Maronites and left in the early 80s. They both still have some family in the north but both hate Hezbollah. They also hate Israel. But most of their disgust is for the Palestinians. They loathe them. What I don't understand, is when I bring up the Druze, they get very agitated. They also really hate them. Come to think of it, I don't know who they like, but they are really good fellas otherwise. Both PhDs.
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Yeah, there are some deep scars left after the civil war there.
 


“… Israel has neither confirmed nor denied any role in the explosions, but 12 current and former defense and intelligence officials who were briefed on the attack say the Israelis were behind it, describing the operation as complex and long in the making. They spoke to The New York Times on the condition of anonymity, given the sensitivity of the subject.

… In Lebanon, as Israel picked off senior Hezbollah commandos with targeted assassinations, their leader came to a conclusion: If Israel was going high-tech, Hezbollah would go low. It was clear, a distressed Hezbollah chief, Hassan Nasrallah, said, that Israel was using cellphone networks to pinpoint the locations of his operatives.

… He [ Hezbollah chief, Hassan Nasrallah] had been pushing for years for Hezbollah to invest instead in pagers, which for all their limited capabilities could receive data without giving away a user’s location or other compromising information, according to American intelligence assessments.

… Even before Mr. Nasrallah decided to expand pager usage, Israel had put into motion a plan to establish a shell company that would pose as an international pager producer.

… By all appearances, B.A.C. Consulting was a Hungary-based company that was under contract to produce the devices on behalf of a Taiwanese company, Gold Apollo. In fact, it was part of an Israeli front, according to three intelligence officers briefed on the operation. They said at least two other shell companies were created as well to mask the real identities of the people creating the pagers: Israeli intelligence officers.

B.A.C. did take on ordinary clients, for which it produced a range of ordinary pagers. But the only client that really mattered was Hezbollah, and its pagers were far from ordinary. Produced separately, they contained batteries laced with the explosive PETN, according to the three intelligence officers.

The pagers began shipping to Lebanon in the summer of 2022 in small numbers, but production was quickly ramped up after Mr. Nasrallah denounced cellphones.

… Speaking to his security cabinet on Sunday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he would do whatever was necessary to enable more than 70,000 Israelis driven away by the fighting with Hezbollah to return home, according to reports in Israeli news outlets.Those residents, he said, could not return without “a fundamental change in the security situation in the north,” according to a statement from the prime minister’s office.

…
One woman, Um Ibrahim, stopped a reporter in the middle of the confusion and begged to use a cellphone to call her children. Her hands shaking, she dialed a number and then screamed a directive:

“Turn off your phones now!”“
 
RaiGuy said:
Because the healthcare workers aren’t Hezbollah, as I mentioned before. Your just making things up with your theories that they’re all Hezbollah.

Also, they didn’t take out thousands of Hezbollah members. All they did was help Hezbollah recruit more people to join them.
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I doubt that. The message from the Mossad is we can find you and you can't hide. Folks won't sign up for that.
 
SnoopRob said:
I think you have a very good point here.

I will say that, as far as I've seen, the question of whether or not these pagers/walkie-talkies were available to the general public or whether or not they all went to Hezbollah members is still open.

There's certainly a lot left to be learned about what has happened here. But I think you have a great point about collateral damage.
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2GuysOneCup has already assured us that this was all carried out with unassailable precision, so don’t even sweat it.
 
SnoopRob said:
I think you have a very good point here.

I will say that, as far as I've seen, the question of whether or not these pagers/walkie-talkies were available to the general public or whether or not they all went to Hezbollah members is still open.

There's certainly a lot left to be learned about what has happened here. But I think you have a great point about collateral damage.
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It is not out in the open. It has been well reported that the pagers were bought by Hezbollah and issued to its members. They were not available to the general public. The general public in Lebanon has no use for pagers because they use cell phones like normal people. Hezbollah instructed its members to use pagers instead of cell phones because they had fears that their communications were being intercepted. Literally the only reason you would have one of those pagers is if you belonged to Hezbollah.
 
duluoz said:
2GuysOneCup has already assured us that this was all carried out with unassailable precision, so don’t even sweat it.
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Every report has demonstrated that it was carried out with unassailable precision, but keep your head in the sand. Just keep sitting in the corner and repeating "Israel, bad".
 
nycfan said:
B.A.C. did take on ordinary clients, for which it produced a range of ordinary pagers. But the only client that really mattered was Hezbollah, and its pagers were far from ordinary. Produced separately, they contained batteries laced with the explosive PETN, according to the three intelligence officers.

\
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Impossible. I have been assured by multiple posters on here that Israel just detonated pagers at random, and that the pope is lucky he wasn't killed.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Every report has demonstrated that it was carried out with unassailable precision, but keep your head in the sand. Just keep sitting in the corner and repeating "Israel, bad".
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you can't be but so precise with this...im sure people could be driving or in situations endangering other people.

However , as another poster said, I would not put this in the category of the many real war crimes this Israeli government has been accused of.
 
I think we found out the October surprise. Israel’s going to start a war in Lebanon because Bibi wants to help Trump and knows Arab-Israeli relations is the area that can fracture Dems’ base and motivate independents away from Dems.
 
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