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Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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  • Replies: 2K
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  • Politics 
4thgenheel said:
yup. this is why i was and still am endlessly flabbergasted by the whole uncommitted movement.

things were always, always, always going to go the absolute worst way for palestine with trump in power.
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I don't necessarily disagree, but it was either going to go heavily in the palestinians way or heavily in israel's way. Going back to something similar was never going to be an option.
 
Lando said:
I don’t see more strategic protesting happening. I think a far more likely solution is that they disengage completely.
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Again, an action that hurts their cause more than helps it.

With friends like these, the Palestinians don’t need enemies.
 
Paine said:
That is their argument, unfortunately. And why it’s not worth engaging anyone who tut-tuts college protestors. Why blame the Biden admin when you can blame a blue haired college kid?
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I think it definitely hurt democrats. biden / harris suffered blame through association. As did the kids. I think the blame was directed at the universities who "brainwash the poor naive students" and of course they support biden / harris who were less than vocal in their "efforts" to calm the protests. It gets lumped into the "anti woke" push by conservative voters
 
Calheel said:
You could probably say that about most protests.
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Not necessarily. There is actually well thought out strategies regarding protests and how to best achieve one’s goals by using protest tactics.

The pro-Palestinian protests largely missed their mark due to poor strategy, but that doesn’t make protests a poor choice of action when used well.
 
SnoopRob said:
Not necessarily. There is actually well thought out strategies regarding protests and how to best achieve one’s goals by using protest tactics.

The pro-Palestinian protests largely missed their mark due to poor strategy, but that doesn’t make protests a poor choice of action when used well.
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Movements have strategies. Protests have emotion. The Gaza protests last year were not centrally coordinated and were not really strategic. You could say the same things about the 2020 George Floyd protests, too.

That doesn't mean there aren't organizers out there trying to capture the protest energy and redirect it into a movement. But by and large those organizers aren't calling the shots. It is simply a group zeitgeist (be it Tik Tok driven or not) that causes people to protest. They aren't making strategic political decisions. They are making emotional decisions.
 
Calheel said:
So they shouldn't have protested because the protests hurt democrats? is that your argument?
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Not at all, but what the fuck did they think a handful of college administrators were going to do to stop Israel? And once they started crossing the line from peaceful protests to vandalism and harassment, it was certain to become a campaign issue and most likely contributed to the red sweep. Anyone who genuinely cared about the Palestinians has to realize their situation is far, far worse now than it was when Biden was in office. FAFO.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
Not at all, but what the fuck did they think a handful of college administrators were going to do to stop Israel? And once they started crossing the line from peaceful protests to vandalism and harassment, it was certain to become a campaign issue and most likely contributed to the red sweep. Anyone who genuinely cared about the Palestinians has to realize their situation is far, far worse now than it was when Biden was in office. FAFO.
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Far worse? Less people are dying. Hostages are being released.

I think Trump will eventually be worse but Biden wasn't exactly locking things down by selling the Israelis all those bombs.
 
Callatoroy said:
I think it definitely hurt democrats. biden / harris suffered blame through association. As did the kids. I think the blame was directed at the universities who "brainwash the poor naive students" and of course they support biden / harris who were less than vocal in their "efforts" to calm the protests. It gets lumped into the "anti woke" push by conservative voters
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The administration’s Gaza policy hurt them much more, IMO.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
Not at all, but what the fuck did they think a handful of college administrators were going to do to stop Israel? And once they started crossing the line from peaceful protests to vandalism and harassment, it was certain to become a campaign issue and most likely contributed to the red sweep. Anyone who genuinely cared about the Palestinians has to realize their situation is far, far worse now than it was when Biden was in office. FAFO.
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I think Calheel is hitting the nail on the head. The protests were an expression of rage in the face of an administration that claimed to be of the left but continued killing children.

It reflects the dismal state of left politics in this country more than anything. There wasn’t any organizing principle behind the protests. See also: Occupy.
 
Paine said:
I think Calheel is hitting the nail on the head. The protests were an expression of rage in the face of an administration that claimed to be of the left but continued killing children.

It reflects the dismal state of left politics in this country more than anything. There wasn’t any organizing principle behind the protests. See also: Occupy.
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How’d that work out for them?
 
BlooVooDoo said:
Not at all, but what the fuck did they think a handful of college administrators were going to do to stop Israel? And once they started crossing the line from peaceful protests to vandalism and harassment, it was certain to become a campaign issue and most likely contributed to the red sweep. Anyone who genuinely cared about the Palestinians has to realize their situation is far, far worse now than it was when Biden was in office. FAFO.
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I understand the thinking but I just don't think that is how protesters think. Did the hippies in 1968 accomplish anything with their Vietnam war protests? They got Nixon elected, who was even more pro-war than Humphrey. The young people who protest aren't like the old dudes who post on political message boards.
 
Paine said:
I think Calheel is hitting the nail on the head. The protests were an expression of rage in the face of an administration that claimed to be of the left but continued killing children.

It reflects the dismal state of left politics in this country more than anything. There wasn’t any organizing principle behind the protests. See also: Occupy.
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It also reflects a naivete that is almost beyond comprehension to sit out the election/work against Harris/vote for Trump (pick one) if Gaza was a driving concern. It's going to be yet another FAFO moment. And maybe it gets us closer to the left leaning party you seek, but it definitely will kill a LOT more Palestinians along the way. So, there's a price and those protesting, etc aren't the ones who will pay.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
How’d that work out for them?
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It didn’t. That’s the point of my post. There was no organized strategy behind these protests other than rage. Justified rage but unproductive rage. It doesn’t do anything to blame these powerless protestors for Harris’ loss other than make liberals feel better about themselves.
 
wmheel1287 said:
It also reflects a naivete that is almost beyond comprehension to sit out the election/work against Harris/vote for Trump (pick one) if Gaza was a driving concern. It's going to be yet another FAFO moment. And maybe it gets us closer to the left leaning party you seek, but it definitely will kill a LOT more Palestinians along the way. So, there's a price and those protesting, etc aren't the ones who will pay.
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College students aren’t known for having great foresight. OTOH, every other avenue re: this issue has been tried. Protests were really the only option left for those trying to register their anger in some way.

That’s what happens when the party that is supposed to be of the left aids a fascist government in perpetrating a genocide. The Biden administration was completely unresponsive on this issue.
 
Paine said:
College students aren’t known for having great foresight. OTOH, every other avenue re: this issue has been tried. Protests were really the only option left for those trying to register their anger in some way.

That’s what happens when the party that is supposed to be of the left aids a fascist government in perpetrating a genocide. The Biden administration was completely unresponsive on this issue.
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It's very fortunate that when this leftist revolution happens, there will be no hard choices and no lesser evils.
 


“… His statement could mark a dramatic shift in U.S. policy toward Palestinians under presidents of both parties. No recent White House has suggested the “long-term” departure of Palestinians from Gaza, which most U.S. presidents have seen as a part of an eventual Palestinian state.

… But on Sunday Trump officials suggested the U.S. and regional partners could provide guarantees the Palestinians would eventually be allowed to return, sketching out an assurance that appeared designed to make the idea more politically palatable to Arab states.

Officials have yet to spell out the precise parameters of the suggestion, including how the more than two million Palestinians in the enclave could be relocated and whether they might eventually fulfill their aspirations to fully govern their own territory. …”
 
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