Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

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duh, guys. zen is the final arbiter of what kinds of bigotry are real and legitimate.

and obviously polling that reinforces his preconceived notions is accurate.

never mind that nearly half of gazans are/were under the age of 18. those murderous little shits!
 
4thgenheel said:
duh, guys. zen is the final arbiter of what kinds of bigotry are real and legitimate.
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Not at all. I just recognize that portraying the issue with Muslim extremists/terrorists/Jihadists as an issue with Islam/Muslims overall is BS and meant, as I referenced above, to manipulate morons.
4thgenheel said:
and obviously polling that reinforces his preconceived notions is accurate.
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My notions are based on polling, not vice versa.
4thgenheel said:
never mind that nearly half of gazans are/were under the age of 18. those murderous little shits!
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Yep... war is ugly. Do you think Hamas has learned its lesson?

I don't.
 
Palestinians already live in a nightmare and it's hard to imagine it getting worse, but if Israel normalizes with the Syrians, the Lebanese and even more Gulf States, it will over the immediate term.
 
Batt Boy said:
Palestinians already live in a nightmare and it's hard to imagine it getting worse, but if Israel normalizes with the Syrians, the Lebanese and even more Gulf States, it will over the immediate term.
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I'm having a very hard time understanding how all of this could plausibly shake out. Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, the Houthis and the Assad regime in Syria have been linked to and supported in recent years by Iran, which is in turn supported by Russia. Al-Sharaa is Sunni, so it makes sense that he, to the extent he "controls" Syria, would link more with Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. But all that does it take "Syria" out of the Iran column and put it in the Sunni column. I could see that being a good thing for Syria (except for the Alawites, but nobody is likely to have much sympathy for them), but doesn't it just make Iran that much more desperate? And the last thing Israel wants is increasingly desperate terrorist/political groups on its borders. So when does all this Abraham Accord stuff, which is great in theory, become too much for Israel to handle? And what happens when THAT happens?

Relatedly, what is Putin thinking about all of this? Iran is basically his vassal state and there's zero chance he's willing to give up his influence in the Middle East. But, at the same time Trump is kowtowing to the Saudis, the Qataris and the Emiratis, he's also fellating Putin at every opportunity. And all of that is being reciprocated tit-for-tat (pun intended). So how does Putin square this circle? What happens if Putin tells the Supreme Leader to blow up a dirty bomb in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem?

My biggest concern is that Trump thinks all of this can be solved by some combination of grift and the force of his personality. We may be about to see where narcissism intersects with global politics in a way that implodes all of the norms that have kept us off the nuclear brink since 1945.
 
lawtig02 said:
I'm having a very hard time understanding how all of this could plausibly shake out. Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, the Houthis and the Assad regime in Syria have been linked to and supported in recent years by Iran, which is in turn supported by Russia. Al-Sharaa is Sunni, so it makes sense that he, to the extent he "controls" Syria, would link more with Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. But all that does it take "Syria" out of the Iran column and put it in the Sunni column. I could see that being a good thing for Syria (except for the Alawites, but nobody is likely to have much sympathy for them), but doesn't it just make Iran that much more desperate? And the last thing Israel wants is increasingly desperate terrorist/political groups on its borders. So when does all this Abraham Accord stuff, which is great in theory, become too much for Israel to handle? And what happens when THAT happens?

Relatedly, what is Putin thinking about all of this? Iran is basically his vassal state and there's zero chance he's willing to give up his influence in the Middle East. But, at the same time Trump is kowtowing to the Saudis, the Qataris and the Emiratis, he's also fellating Putin at every opportunity. And all of that is being reciprocated tit-for-tat (pun intended). So how does Putin square this circle? What happens if Putin tells the Supreme Leader to blow up a dirty bomb in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem?

My biggest concern is that Trump thinks all of this can be solved by some combination of grift and the force of his personality. We may be about to see where narcissism intersects with global politics in a way that implodes all of the norms that have kept us off the nuclear brink since 1945.
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It is complicated. This is a bit dated, but I think still holds true. Arabs vs Persians, Sunni vs Shi'a - "hatred" vs reality

You don't have to go back so far to know that Persians were in fact Sunni. The fight between the Safavids and the Ottomans changed that and set our recent memory, but for 8 maybe 9 centuries, Persians were largely Sunni. I mentioned on the old boards that my dad served in the USAF in Tehran (loved the country, the people and the poetry). Some of the most important Persian legal minds as well as a bunch of poets were Sunni.
 
ZenMode said:
Not at all. I just recognize that portraying the issue with Muslim extremists/terrorists/Jihadists as an issue with Islam/Muslims overall is BS and meant, as I referenced above, to manipulate morons.
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then you need to choose your words much more carefully or keep your goddamn mouth shut when people correct your bullshit.

this is what you said: "It's a good thing Hamas/Jihadists/Muslims just want "their" land back, and don't want to wipe Jews off the face of the Earth, or this could be taken the wrong way...."

i wouldn't have taken exception to your post if you had left it at hamas/jihadists but you threw literally billions of largely innocent/peaceful people under the bus.
 
4thgenheel said:
then you need to choose your words much more carefully or keep your goddamn mouth shut when people correct your bullshit.

this is what you said: "It's a good thing Hamas/Jihadists/Muslims just want "their" land back, and don't want to wipe Jews off the face of the Earth, or this could be taken the wrong way...."

i wouldn't have taken exception to your post if you had left it at hamas/jihadists but you threw literally billions of largely innocent/peaceful people under the bus.
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What if reference depends on what I'm saying. I wouldn't accuse just any Muslim of being a terrorist/Jihadist. However, I, as I did above, would probably reference "Muslims" when saying "they just want their land back". Again, nearly 75% of all Palestinian Muslims supported the actions of Hamas on October 7th.
 
Batt Boy said:
Palestinians already live in a nightmare and it's hard to imagine it getting worse, but if Israel normalizes with the Syrians, the Lebanese and even more Gulf States, it will over the immediate term.
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Maybe - it could also mean those countries agree to give Palestinians safe haven and a fresh start. I can dream at any rate.
 
RaiGuy said:
What’s the excuse for targeting these civilians in a hospital courtyard? Are these also human shields?
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You are dedicated for sure....

Again.... why were the Hamas leaders that were dealt with under a hospital?

You can't justify that because you know.

"Down with Western Civilization.."

Defend that.
 
GuyFree said:
You are dedicated for sure....

Again.... why were the Hamas leaders that were dealt with under a hospital?

You can't justify that because you know.

"Down with Western Civilization.."

Defend that.
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lol, you believe that? Israel shared an image of what they said was tunnel under then hospital, but it wasn’t even the right building. BBC News called them out on their bullshit.
 
RaiGuy said:
lol, you believe that? Israel shared an image of what they said was tunnel under then hospital, but it wasn’t even the right building. BBC News called them out on their bullshit.
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It is well known that Hamas has tunnels under hospitals and civilian infrastructure in Gaza. Literally indisputable. The video you just posted seems to even confirm this. The bomb struck outside of the hospital and you can see the fire coming from the tunnel that was destroyed.
 
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ZZLPHeels said:
It is well known that Hamas has tunnels under hospitals and civilian infrastructure in Gaza. Literally indisputable. The video you just posted seems to even confirm this. The bomb struck outside of the hospital and you can see the fire coming from the tunnel that was destroyed.
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The fire was coming from the crater created by the bomb. The area it hit was the courtyard in the middle of the hospital. Also, this is a hospital that has several foreign doctors (one of my friends from UNC was actually volunteering there a few months ago). Israel knows that there are foreign doctors there as it takes a lot of coordination with them to let them in.

However, let’s just say this one time Israel wasn’t lying about the tunnels. You think it’s fine to bomb civilians to get to an imaginary tunnel underneath?
Some people are just so gullible or put on blinders.
 
RaiGuy said:
The fire was coming from the crater created by the bomb. The area it hit was the courtyard in the middle of the hospital. Also, this is a hospital that has several foreign doctors (one of my friends from UNC was actually volunteering there a few months ago). Israel knows that there are foreign doctors there as it takes a lot of coordination with them to let them in.

However, let’s just say this one time Israel wasn’t lying about the tunnels. You think it’s fine to bomb civilians to get to an imaginary tunnel underneath?
Some people are just so gullible or put on blinders.
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Well, for starters, if Israel wasn't lying about the tunnels then the tunnels aren't "imaginary". They are real. And everyone knows that they are real: Inside the tunnels of Gaza

With regard to your second question, that depends on the military value of whatever or whoever is in the tunnel being targeted. If you are just blowing up the tunnel to blow up the tunnel, I don't think collateral damage is warranted. If you have reason to believe that terrorists or weapons are in that particular section of the tunnel, then it is a cost-benefit analysis situation. It is unfortunate for the civilians of Gaza that Hamas has put tunnels under essentially every aspect of civilian infrastructure.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Well, for starters, if Israel wasn't lying about the tunnels then the tunnels aren't "imaginary". They are real. And everyone knows that they are real: Inside the tunnels of Gaza

With regard to your second question, that depends on the military value of whatever or whoever is in the tunnel being targeted. If you are just blowing up the tunnel to blow up the tunnel, I don't think collateral damage is warranted. If you have reason to believe that terrorists or weapons are in that particular section of the tunnel, then it is a cost-benefit analysis situation. It is unfortunate for the civilians of Gaza that Hamas has put tunnels under essentially every aspect of civilian infrastructure.
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So if there was an alleged terrorist tunnel under your kid's school with maybe a terrorist in the tunnel, you would be fine if it got bombed while the kids were there because it's just unfortunate that the terrorist built a tunnel under it? Blowing up kids would be sad but justified?
 
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