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Israel launches attack on Iran

[oops: vestige of an earlier post that I didn't intend to include]
nycfan said:
Iran has earned its pariah state status. And keeping this regime from having nukes is a rational goal. The dispute among American foreign policy experts over the last 25 years has been how to do that, not whether it needs to be done.
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Those foreign policy experts know a hell of a lot more than me, but it seems to me that a nuclear-armed Iran might very well pose less of a threat to the stability of the region than it does now.

If we actually wanted regime change, dropping all sanctions would be the best bet, I think. It would also reduce Iran's need to fund proxies everywhere.
 
nycfan said:
In a sane world, the President telling a city of over 10 million to “immediately evacuate” without further clarification would be a massive scandal. Think how much we debate evacuations in this country for approaching hurricanes … large scale evacuations are inherently dangerous and costly.

Anyway, he also started yesterday directing ICE and other federal law enforcement to target blue cities and “Democrat power centers” and to commence “Remigration” and … crickets.

The Administration’s mush-mouthed messaging on the Israeli strikes on Iran would be ruthlessly parsed by politicians and media alike if another administration were in charge, but here, in this reality, it’s just internalized while folks wait for the next contradictory or confusing statement. Trump chaos is disorienting.
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And if anyone did raise an objection his acolytes would immediately and childishly characterize that person as having TDS.
 
nycfan said:
I don’t disagree — it is hard to explain his lasting embrace of Putin. But even after a few timid jabs at Putin over the last few months, Trump makes clear that he values his relationship with Putin and Putin’s view of world events over allied leaders and US intel.
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When something seems inexplicable, my experience has shown the answer is usually related to money.
 
Healing said:
It’s actually closer to 30 years.

Also, “unconditional surrender”? Were we at war? Who exactly is “surrendering”?
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How it feels to me -

When Israel launched their attack, the US was quickly out with the “Not us” messaging as Trump didn’t know what course this would take. Now with the conflict clearly a rout and Iran posing no opposition, Trump wants to swoop in and “lead” what he’ll claim as a great victory.
 
Netanyahu is playing Trump like a fiddle. He's goaded the US into a war of opportunity to remove nuclear capabilities for several years. That's certainly not a bad thing, but we will reap the whirlwind - we are entering fraught and unpredictable times. Absent any willing ground forces - who would supply them? - i would rate regime change as improbable.
 
In addition to his smart comments on the Minnesota shooting, future President Stewart also made a good point about how many times Bibi has cried wolf in the past about Iran.

 
Huh? said:
Netanyahu is playing Trump like a fiddle. He's goaded the US into a war of opportunity to remove nuclear capabilities for several years. That's certainly not a bad thing, but we will reap the whirlwind - we are entering fraught and unpredictable times. Absent any willing ground forces - who would supply them? - i would rate regime change as improbable.
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Iran is such an interesting case. Other than Iran itself and their terrorist proxies around the ME, I don't think there's ANYONE who wants Iran to have a nuke. I am extremely nervous about what's happening right now, but if Israel actually does figure out a way to destroy Fordow, I won't be shedding any tears.

As for regime change, at some point the educated, sophisticated, westernized Iranians we've been hearing about for decades are going to have to stand up. They'll get a lot of help if they do, but it's going to have to start on the streets of Tehran.
 


“… I’m certainly not going to characterize what President Trump says or tweets for that matter. He doesn’t need characterizing. He’s one of the most transparent, one of the most clear individuals that we’ve we’ve known. I think that we can take his word for his word but I’m not going to speculate on in a larger sense what that would mean, uh, that is up to the President. He is the singular guiding hand about what will be occurring uh from this point forward as he has been and uh I think that that dynamic is pretty clear. He says he wants an end as he has said about every conflict that he has as a peacemaker worked to stop peacefully through diplomacy, that has been his commitment and uh he wants these things as he said bout a number of situations not for a month or six months but durable ends to this nature of forever wars and that has been his posture and that’s his posture now.”
 
It's sort of amazing that in one breath she says everything is up to Trump, and then in the next admits that Trump has not actually made any progress toward peace in any conflict. Even Trump says that Putin and Zelensky are the ones shaping that war.
 
lawtig02 said:
As for regime change, at some point the educated, sophisticated, westernized Iranians we've been hearing about for decades are going to have to stand up. They'll get a lot of help if they do, but it's going to have to start on the streets of Tehran.
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Who is going to be giving this help?
 
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Mohammadi won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2023 for her long fight for women’s rights in Iran and has been imprisoned in Iran for about a decade. Her foundation posts on her behalf from what I’ve read.
 
p5mmr9 said:
. . .. Whether or not the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world has a nuclear weapon is an issue that should interest all of us.
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I think there are some countries in Central America, Southeast Asia, and the Middle East that have a different idea on whom the crown of "largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world" should reside.
 
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