Israel reaches cease fire with Hezbollah, fighting shifts to Syria

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Batt Boy said:
Agreed. They should use their bombs on the settlers. They are criminals in my view. But it wouldn't matter. The cycle is set. Their enemies want them dead. Gone. Removed. They offered Gaza, Judea and Samaria and got turned down. The time for peace passed then. They will have to fight this out until the end.
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What does that mean? Genocide? Permanent displacement? You just don’t GAF?
 
RaiGuy said:
Instances?? Lol
Again, 20,000 children killed. How many instances are we talking about?? Is their aim that bad?
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We're talking warfare in a dense urban environment in which Hamas intentionally uses women and children as human shields in order to inflate the death toll as high as they can get it. Horrible for the innocent civilians caught in the crossfire.
 
Batt Boy said:
Not sure there is any hope of an end game. I see continued suffering of the innocent. Pain. War. Death. For all sides.
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How can almost any ending be worse than that? How can any person really take sides in this debacle? If nothing else, tell Israel "No mas" and let them know they are on their own with the UN. That would sooth me a bit. I feel like an accomplice before the fact . It sucks worse that we aren't getting a single thing out of it and are hurting ourselves with other nations.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Yup, I am reading a great book right now about Jimmy Carter and the Camp David summit with Sadat and Begin. This issue should have been solved a couple of generations ago but it hasn't been. I don't particularly like either side but Israel's values align much more with our own than Hamas's. Israel is a democracy and Hamas is an Islamofascist terror group. We largely have the same values and the same enemies. That doesn't give Israel a carte blanche but it does make them the lesser of two evils by a wide margin in my book. We can't change the past but we can shape the future.
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With Bibi in charge, they are about as much a democracy as Russia and there's damned few values I share with that asshole.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
We're talking warfare in a dense urban environment in which Hamas intentionally uses women and children as human shields in order to inflate the death toll as high as they can get it. Horrible for the innocent civilians caught in the crossfire.
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How dare they shield themselves with children who are sleeping in their own homes, in schools, and in tents! :rolleyes:

If Israel cared about human life, they wouldn’t be demolishing city blocks to supposedly get a couple Hamas members. They wouldn’t be sniping children and using drones to kill unarmed civilians and then posting it on Telegram to gloat about it. Or killing men in the West Bank and then taking their bodies on top of building to throw them off the buildings. These are not isolated incidents.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
When was the last war that took place that didn't involve collateral damage? You either don't understand or choose to ignore the fact that there is a difference between targeting civilians (wrong) and targeting militants with civilians sometimes being caught in the crosshairs. The first action is terrorism and the second is legitimate warfare.
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Clearly, there is a line somewhere. If you drop a bomb that you know will kill 1 million people and at least 1 terrorist, do you believe that is morally superior to dropping a bomb that just kills a million people?
 
Batt Boy said:
They will have to fight this out until the end.
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So, what is your definition of the end? Because there is no, I repeat no military solution here. Israel does not have the ability or desire to conquer or hold the entire middle east. So, there will always be an endless supply of people willing to attack Israel. The only solution to the middle east problem is negotiated peace. There will never be an "end" through war.

That doesn't mean war has no place in peace negotiations. Throughout history, military success has been used to negotiate peace terms. But at the end of the day, there will be a negotiated peace. This is not a winnable war for anyone.
 
Calheel said:
Clearly, there is a line somewhere. If you drop a bomb that you know will kill 1 million people and at least 1 terrorist, do you believe that is morally superior to dropping a bomb that just kills a million people?
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Agree there is a line somewhere. Hamas doesn’t differentiate between civilians and militants in its casualty counts, but the only estimates I have seen have out the civilian to combatant ratio killed around 1:1, which is lower than it was for us in Afghanistan and Iraq.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Agree there is a line somewhere. Hamas doesn’t differentiate between civilians and militants in its casualty counts, but the only estimates I have seen have out the civilian to combatant ratio killed around 1:1, which is lower than it was for us in Afghanistan and Iraq.
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Where did you see that lie? There are around 40k killed and half are children. So, you’re saying that all the adults killed are Hamas??
 
51758-8521949c36b98b56d8f1a9f66b57b3f4.jpg.pngLeadership devastated. Their only real option now is to cross into Israel and abduct civilians and soldiers for torture and ransom. Their other deterrence has been limited.
 

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Batt Boy said:
51758-8521949c36b98b56d8f1a9f66b57b3f4.jpg.pngLeadership devastated. Their only real option now is to cross into Israel and abduct civilians and soldiers for torture and ransom. Their other deterrence has been limited.
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Or just promote new people into those leadership roles like every other terrorist organization does.
 
Hezbollah exists mainly to protect Iran's nuclear program by threatening to shower Israel with tens of thousands of rockets, with a potential for thousands of deaths and massive impacts to their economy. Israel's economy is it Achilles heel, no matter how robust the IDF.

The IDF is one by one eliminating Hezbollah's deterrence assets. Now that Hezbollah's quite literally being neutered, Iran is exposed, and so is its nuclear program.

Israel is tired of waiting and Iran's nuclear assets will be targeted soon.
 
Batt Boy said:
Hezbollah exists mainly to protect Iran's nuclear program by threatening to shower Israel with tens of thousands of rockets, with a potential for thousands of deaths and massive impacts to their economy. Israel's economy is it Achilles heel, no matter how robust the IDF.

The IDF is one by one eliminating Hezbollah's deterrence assets. Now that Hezbollah's quite literally being neutered, Iran is exposed, and so is its nuclear program.

Israel is tired of waiting and Iran's nuclear assets will be targeted soon.
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I don't give a shit about you being rabidly pro-Israel but why should we be rooting for them? This seems like a terrible solution and I hope we finally tell they're on their own with this.
 
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