Mass Deportation - Planning underway— Tom Homan to be “Border Czar”

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I keep wanting to reply to different threads but I'm just having a hard time finding the words at the moment. All of this (re-election, cabinet picks, etc) is pretty crushing. And honestly I'm very concerned about big ticket items (the geopolitical situation and nuclear proliferation, human rights, climate change) and how this next administration is shaping up to be completely unprepared to handle any of these topics. I vacillate between putting my head in the sand and despairing. But in response to this thread, I just know that mass deportation or detention will be terrible for so many people, including LE and military members who will be handling this situation. I have talked with several former military (usually NG) who were deployed down to the border at various times. I've also had conversations with veterans who were involved in the withdrawal from Afghanistan and it was awful. People get desperate when they feel like their freedom and options are ending (think people hanging onto the wheels of a plane when it is taking off, people getting crushed in crowds, etc). Also when you have detention camps, you have to decide how much you are going to police the detainees... I've heard of veterans witnessing murder, child molestation, etc in these situations. I hear a lot of trauma in my job, and I know there is so much suffering to come on all sides of this equation. :(
 
wmheel1287 said:
It's really too bad that he loathes them in return.
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Suckers, losers, things of that nature?

I don’t have a longer frame of reference than this because I’m not old enough, but wonder if the reason that the GOP such substantial support from military members right now is because of how it seemed (not saying it was actually true) in the early to mid 2000s that the Republicans were the “support the troops” party and the Democrats were the “Bush lied, thousands died” party?
 
CFordUNC said:
Suckers, losers, things of that nature?

I don’t have a longer frame of reference than this because I’m not old enough, but wonder if the reason that the GOP such substantial support from military members right now is because of how it seemed (not saying it was actually true) in the early to mid 2000s that the Republicans were the “support the troops” party and the Democrats were the “Bush lied, thousands died” party?
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The military has favored the GOP because 1) militaries are almost always conservative in nature; and 2) hippies re: Vietnam. It long predated the Iraq War.
 
CFordUNC said:
Suckers, losers, things of that nature?

I don’t have a longer frame of reference than this because I’m not old enough, but wonder if the reason that the GOP such substantial support from military members right now is because of how it seemed (not saying it was actually true) in the early to mid 2000s that the Republicans were the “support the troops” party and the Democrats were the “Bush lied, thousands died” party?
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This is painting with a broad brush, but the military is a lot of working class folks and those types of folks are rejecting the Democrats right now whether they’re military or not.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
This is painting with a broad brush, but the military is a lot of working class folks and those types of folks are rejecting the Democrats right now whether they’re military or not.
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1/3 of registered voters voted for Donald Trump. For the third consecutive time, he failed to garner a plurality of votes. For the third consecutive time the majority of Americans voted against him. He won by around 200,000 votes in seven swing states. Democrats won all sorts of down ballot races including and especially in swing states where Trump won the presidential ticket. Nobody is “rejecting the Democrats left and right” unless that you think a one percent popular vote win and 60% of the electoral college votes means “rejecting left and right.” I do hope the GOP governs as if they are, though.
 
finesse said:
A variant on herd immunity in a way.
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Bill Hamilton coined the phrase selfish herd to describe this phenomenon of numerical group defense. The bigger the herd, the better an individual’s odds of not being the meal.
The selfish part comes into play with the jostling for positions in the middle of the herd. The losers were the ones left more exposed on the periphery.
 
CFordUNC said:
Yeah. I agree, the inhumanity of such a scenario would be the worst aspect, and of course there would be dire economic ramifications felt by all of us, as well.

I tend to think that this whole "we're going to deport illegal immigrants" thing will look very similarly to the "build a wall and make Mexico pay for it" bullshit from the first term. There will be widely-publicized raids and round-ups of people who are *already* incarcerated or in the crosshairs of the legal system. There will be an enormous Trumpian show and performative theater, as there always is, and there will be all sorts of outright lying and fudging and obfuscation of statistics and data that will make it seem like the five-figure number of illegal immigrants "deported" actually numbers in the millions. But short of creating a concentration camp-style system of incarceration, it's hard to even understand logistically how Trumpers expect it to work.
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I think the difference is that some Trump supporters are demanding he do this and unlike a wall in remote areas, it would be hard to hide the lack of progress. People will see if construction sites are still full of immigrants.

I think it might be Trump’s goal to keep it minimal but he may have painted himself into a corner if so.
 
tallheel95 said:
I keep wanting to reply to different threads but I'm just having a hard time finding the words at the moment. All of this (re-election, cabinet picks, etc) is pretty crushing. And honestly I'm very concerned about big ticket items (the geopolitical situation and nuclear proliferation, human rights, climate change) and how this next administration is shaping up to be completely unprepared to handle any of these topics. I vacillate between putting my head in the sand and despairing. But in response to this thread, I just know that mass deportation or detention will be terrible for so many people, including LE and military members who will be handling this situation. I have talked with several former military (usually NG) who were deployed down to the border at various times. I've also had conversations with veterans who were involved in the withdrawal from Afghanistan and it was awful. People get desperate when they feel like their freedom and options are ending (think people hanging onto the wheels of a plane when it is taking off, people getting crushed in crowds, etc). Also when you have detention camps, you have to decide how much you are going to police the detainees... I've heard of veterans witnessing murder, child molestation, etc in these situations. I hear a lot of trauma in my job, and I know there is so much suffering to come on all sides of this equation. :(
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Thank you for this perspective. Yes, I imagine it will be hard for many people in the NG to herd migrants into cars and send them to camps.
 
CFordUNC said:
I tend to think that this whole "we're going to deport illegal immigrants" thing will look very similarly to the "build a wall and make Mexico pay for it" bullshit from the first term.
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I don't think so. The Trump transition team didn't really give a fuck about the wall. They didn't staff the cabinet departments with that in mind.

Look at what Trump is doing now, though. He is very, very serious about the mass deportation. Notice how he's appointing mainstream Pubs to departments like State, Interior, Energy -- i.e. the issues he doesn't give a fuck about. Then look at DHS, DOJ, DoD. Those are the positions he does care about, and there he is putting his unqualified lackeys.

I don't know if you remember this, but when Noem's dog-killing thing came out, I had an explanation of why she put it in there. She was auditioning for DHS. She was telling the world, "I will use violence if necessary to accomplish my goal." The dog was a metaphor for migrants. And it looks like I was right. She got the job she wanted.

Maybe the mass deportation is just the new wall, but it doesn't look that way right now.
 
CFordUNC said:
Suckers, losers, things of that nature?

I don’t have a longer frame of reference than this because I’m not old enough, but wonder if the reason that the GOP such substantial support from military members right now is because of how it seemed (not saying it was actually true) in the early to mid 2000s that the Republicans were the “support the troops” party and the Democrats were the “Bush lied, thousands died” party?
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I think they have always been more right. Obviously there are plenty of Democrats in the military as well.

But, anyway, the Republicans are now fully in the “Bush lied, thousands died” because Trump is. Their reversal on that issue is a clear sign of the power of the cult.
 
UNCatTech said:
The numbers are very low. I believe I read that the state of NC had 15 trans women athletes.

But thats not really the point. The right wants to use this to turn people against all trans people even those who couldn't care less about playing sports.
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To add and clarify...

The NC High School Athletic Association had 15 total trans athletes in 2023, only 2 of them were trans females. This in a state with roughly 180,000 high school students. This issue is so far down the list of critical matters to address that you can barely see it with the Hubble Telescope. Pub politicians have made this a priority because it's low hanging fruit that they know speaks to their base's bigotries.
 
The military thing mostly started with Vietnam, or more correctly lies stemming from Vietnam. The myth of soldiers returning from Vietnam being spat on and being called baby killers is endemic in rightwing propaganda and many people think that it is established fact and even common.

Fwiw, my experience is that most of the Viet vets I knew were more on the side of the demonstrators. I had a buddy throw his Bronze Star in a pile at an anti-war demonstration after he was back home and at UNC.

I'm linking wiki because it gives the broader overview. Feel free to link anything reasonably bias free pro or con concerning this.

en.wikipedia.org

Myth of the spat-on Vietnam veteran - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Something I was thinking about last night had me thinking of another future cost. What happens when the political cycle turns (assuming it does)? How much will reparations cost us. In 88, it was $20,000 a survivor for the Japanese. I suspect that would be cheap these days, even adjusted for inflation. We're looking at 12 million people that we might end up deporting. Btw, that 12 million seems to represent a consensus of centrist reports. Anybody got a more proven number?
 
finesse said:
Something I was thinking about last night had me thinking of another future cost. What happens when the political cycle turns (assuming it does)? How much will reparations cost us. In 88, it was $20,000 a survivor for the Japanese. I suspect that would be cheap these days, even adjusted for inflation. We're looking at 12 million people that we might end up deporting. Btw, that 12 million seems to represent a consensus of centrist reports. Anybody got a more proven number?
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Assuming the deportations are done in a humane way, I don’t think there is going to be a move for reparations. The Japanese were US citizens.
 
ZenMode said:
With the Laken Riley trial starting, illegal immigration is going to be a big topic. The fact that Laken's killer sneaked into the country, committed multiple crimes, wasn't deported and eventually committed murder, is a problem, IMO. People who go to the ports of entry, and follow the correct process, should be on a short leash. People who sneak in should be on an even shorter leash. He should have been returned to Venezuela before he had a chance to kill Laken.
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On a positive note, the piece of shit was found guilty on all charges.

Jose Ibarra found guilty on all charges related to Laken Riley’s murder​

 
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