Mass Shooting & Gun Violence |

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4thgenheel said:
statistically irrelevant anecdotal evidence.

Defensive Gun Use Study:

www.theguardian.com

People in homes with handguns more likely to be shot dead, major study finds

Researchers find ‘zero evidence of any kind of protective effects’, with women at particular risk
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Not statistically irrelevant to the people who have been saved by those handguns. One of those people is my wife. There are incidents every day where people use their guns to defend themselves. No amount of gaslighting will change that.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
I don’t think it is. Handguns are in common use, and IMO banning them would primary hurt law-abiding citizens. Machine guns are largely banned and are very rarely used in crimes, and I don’t want to change that. The issue is just where to draw that line.
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I draw that line at no guns in public spaces or off your own property without the permission of another owner.
 
fwiw, i firmly believe that handguns should be legal (with significantly more stringent permitting and safety training processes in place than the absolute shitshow freeforall that we have now) but pretending that they're helping keep people safe is laughable.

people with guns in their homes die from gun violence at a significantly higher rate than people without guns in their homes, particularly handguns.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Not statistically irrelevant to the people who have been saved by those handguns. One of those people is my wife. There are incidents every day where people use their guns to defend themselves. No amount of gaslighting will change that.
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way, way, way more people have been murdered or accidentally killed than saved by handguns. those are facts. if anyone here is gaslighting, it is you.
 
4thgenheel said:
fwiw, i firmly believe that handguns should be legal (with significantly more stringent permitting and safety training processes in place than the absolute shitshow freeforall that we have now) but pretending that they're helping keep people safe is laughable.

people with guns in their homes die from gun violence at a significantly higher rate than people without guns in their homes, particularly handguns.
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Primarily because of suicide. Either way, people should be able to make their own informed decision whether or not they want to own a handgun.
 
4thgenheel said:
way, way, way more people have been murdered or accidentally killed than saved by handguns. those are facts. if anyone here is gaslighting, it is you.
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Mostly due to gang and drug-related violence. If you don’t want to own a handgun, no one is forcing you to do so. I’m certainly glad that my household owns one, though, as it has already thwarted one home invasion.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
There were plenty more that involved shootouts. I just got tired of copying and pasting. Regardless of how you or I feel about the issue, a handgun ban and/or a semi-auto ban is not going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future. I am thankful about that, but can understand why you would feel otherwise.
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I agree its not going to happen soon but a semi-auto ban would drastically decrease mass shooting's while a handgun ban would drastically reduce the overall murder rate.

But a semi-auto with detachable magazine would drastically decrease mass shootings while also allowing almost everyone to do almost everything that they do today. I can't understand why people wouldn't at least consider that.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Primarily because of suicide. Either way, people should be able to make their own informed decision whether or not they want to own a handgun.
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no, not primarily.

suicides by firearm generally account for 30-50% of annual gun deaths.

the vast majority of children who are killed by guns aren't suicide victims.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Mostly due to gang and drug-related violence. If you don’t want to own a handgun, no one is forcing you to do so. I’m certainly glad that my household owns one, though, as it has already thwarted one home invasion.
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Cool. If people want guns at home, I've got no problem with it. I don't even have a problem with them using them at home to commit suicide. I do have a little problem with four-year-olds shooting two-year-olds, but I guess lousy parenting can kill kids in a variety of ways. Bottom line - I fully support people's right to FAFO at home.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I agree its not going to happen soon but a semi-auto ban would drastically decrease mass shooting's while a handgun ban would drastically reduce the overall murder rate.

But a semi-auto with detachable magazine would drastically decrease mass shootings while also allowing almost everyone to do almost everything that they do today. I can't understand why people wouldn't at least consider that.
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Mass shootings (by the FBI definition since there are several definitions out there) only make up a tiny fraction of gun deaths annually. Denying people the ability to protect themselves or their families from well-armed home invaders who already don’t follow the rules is not going to sell, nor should it IMO.
 
4thgenheel said:
no, not primarily.

suicides by firearm generally account for 30-50% of annual gun deaths.

the vast majority of children who are killed by guns aren't suicide victims.
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The vast majority of “children” who are killed by guns are 16-19 year olds who are killed in gang or drug-related violence, typically by people using illegal guns that they aren’t allowed to own in the first place. Going after those individuals would dramatically reduce gun deaths with no new legislation needed.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Mostly due to gang and drug-related violence. If you don’t want to own a handgun, no one is forcing you to do so. I’m certainly glad that my household owns one, though, as it has already thwarted one home invasion.
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approximately half of the women who are murdered in this country each year are killed by current or past intimate partners and approximately half of those murders are by firearm.
 
UNCMSinLS said:
Cool. If people want guns at home, I've got no problem with it. I don't even have a problem with them using them at home to commit suicide. I do have a little problem with four-year-olds shooting two-year-olds, but I guess lousy parenting can kill kids in a variety of ways. Bottom line - I fully support people's right to FAFO at home.
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I’m all for safe storage legislation. There are gun safes now that allow you to open the device within seconds while preventing unauthorized access. There is no reason a parent should NOT be charged if their kid gets ahold of an unsecured gun and hurts themselves or someone else with it, IMO.
 
4thgenheel said:
approximately half of the women who are murdered in this country each year are killed by current or past intimate partners and approximately half of those murders are by firearm.
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If a woman’s partner is going to murder her, it makes no difference if he uses a handgun or a shotgun. A shotgun will do much more damage with much less ammunition. They are also typically much cheaper than handguns.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
If a woman’s partner is going to murder her, it makes no difference if he uses a handgun or a shotgun. A shotgun will do much more damage with much less ammunition. They are also typically much cheaper than handguns.
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weird non-sequitur. i didn't say anything about the type of firearm and i already made it clear itt that i believe that handguns should be legal, though more stringently regulated.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
I’m all for safe storage legislation. There are gun safes now that allow you to open the device within seconds while preventing unauthorized access. There is no reason a parent should NOT be charged if their kid gets ahold of an unsecured gun and hurts themselves or someone else with it, IMO.
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not just kids. your gun, your responsibility.

safety training and secure storage are critical to responsible gun ownership.
 
One more thing on gun control: the Democrats need to be careful what they wish for. We are in unprecedented territory now with Trump and his minions. It is not unthinkable that in the near future bands of his supporters could be targeting non MAGATs and might even have the support of some segments of the government in doing so. Do you really want the only ones with guns to be the Trumpets?
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Mass shootings (by the FBI definition since there are several definitions out there) only make up a tiny fraction of gun deaths annually. Denying people the ability to protect themselves or their families from well-armed home invaders who already don’t follow the rules is not going to sell, nor should it IMO.
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Its not denying families the ability to protect themselves from anyone unless you are on the run from the kgb. You prevented a home invasion with a gun. Could you have done it with a revolver or a shotgun with internal mag?

Also, you are right that they aren't going to sell but they should in my opinion.
 
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