OMB freezes all disbursements / USAID shutdown / GOP begs for exceptions for their states

rodoheel said:
Congress has to delegate some level of authority to make particular expenditures in service of congressional appropriations. Congress can't sit around all day deciding what brand of hammers to use on construction projects, what kind of coffee to put in the break room, and where every single grant dollar is going to go. The people to whom that authority is delegated shouldn't be second-guessed by any random American citizen who thinks some bucket of money should have been spent differently. Because you can't get 10 people to agree on how every dollar in the federal government is spent, much less the whole budget. That's why this sort of line-item exploration of every single grant dollar ever sent out is just such a spectacular waste of time - and such an obvious bad-faith exercise from Musk and the Trump admin, who have no desire to actually reduce fraud and waste but instead are looking for any pretext they can find to unconstitutionally arrogate to themselves the sole power to make decisions on expenditures.
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I agree that Congress can't get down to that level of minutia but I strongly disagree that civil servants can't be second-guessed as to how they spend money. They should absolutely be held accountable.

And I know the argument is that these millions of dollars don't mean a thing when you compare it to the trillions that we spend and I completely agree, but when you compare the millions of dollars to the salary of the person that is doing the investigating, that can be a pretty good investment.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I agree that Congress can't get down to that level of minutia but I strongly disagree that civil servants can't be second-guessed as to how they spend money. They should absolutely be held accountable.

And I know the argument is that these millions of dollars don't mean a thing when you compare it to the trillions that we spend and I completely agree, but when you compare the millions of dollars to the salary of the person that is doing the investigating, that can be a pretty good investment.
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Held accountable by established audit processes? Absolutely. Held accountable for fraud and contracting processes that violate federal law? Absolutely. Held accountable simply because someone has a philosophical or political disagreement about what money should be spent on? That's where I have a problem.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I agree that Congress can't get down to that level of minutia but I strongly disagree that civil servants can't be second-guessed as to how they spend money. They should absolutely be held accountable.

And I know the argument is that these millions of dollars don't mean a thing when you compare it to the trillions that we spend and I completely agree, but when you compare the millions of dollars to the salary of the person that is doing the investigating, that can be a pretty good investment.
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Do you think Musk will save more per hour from these cuts, or make more during that time?
 
rodoheel said:
Held accountable by established audit processes? Absolutely. Held accountable for fraud and contracting processes that violate federal law? Absolutely. Held accountable simply because someone has a philosophical or political disagreement about what money should be spent on? That's where I have a problem.
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I hear your opinion and I respect it, but I have no problem holding someone accountable for pushing a political agenda with tax dollar funds meant for foreign aid. I'd much rather see that money spent on helping the less fortunate or put back towards the debt. Agree to disagree I suppose.
 
sringwal said:
Do you think Musk will save more per hour from these cuts, or make more during that time?
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I don't know and find it irrelevant. Now if you're implying that musk is going to fraudulently pay himself from tax dollars, I'd be very happy to prosecute him even if he wiped out the deficit, wiped out the debt and gave everyone a $100,000 a year stipend because he saved us so much money.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I hear your opinion and I respect it, but I have no problem holding someone accountable for pushing a political agenda with tax dollar funds meant for foreign aid. I'd much rather see that money spent on helping the less fortunate or put back towards the debt. Agree to disagree I suppose.
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OK. Imagine Congress appropriates $10 million in money to be used to "promote democracy in southeast Asia." Lots of people are going to have different opinions about what it means to "promote Democracy." A person working for USAID awards a grant of $100k for something they believe in good faith to be consistent with that goal. That belief is in line with the presidential administration at the time. Then a new administration comes in. They think "promote Democracy" means something different. And you think it's appropriate for the USAID employee who approved the grant disbursement to now be fired and called a criminal engaging in fraud just because of that difference in understanding of a fairly vague Congressional appropriation?
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I don't know and find it irrelevant. Now if you're implying that musk is going to fraudulently pay himself from tax dollars, I'd be very happy to prosecute him even if he wiped out the deficit, wiped out the debt and gave everyone a $100,000 a year stipend because he saved us so much money.
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Yes. That is what I believe he is doing. The money “saved” from all of these cuts will go directly into the US Sovereign Wealth Fund which will have a large crypto component that will, either directly or indirectly, lead to Musk profiting off of what is happening at the moment.
 
rodoheel said:
OK. Imagine Congress appropriates $10 million in money to be used to "promote democracy in southeast Asia." Lots of people are going to have different opinions about what it means to "promote Democracy." A person working for USAID awards a grant of $100k for something they believe in good faith to be consistent with that goal. That belief is in line with the presidential administration at the time. Then a new administration comes in. They think "promote Democracy" means something different. And you think it's appropriate for the USAID employee who approved the grant disbursement to now be fired and called a criminal engaging in fraud just because of that difference in understanding of a fairly vague Congressional appropriation?
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I would say if that person had the opportunity to spend that $100,000 on voting machines or polling places, but thought it was a better idea to spend it on a DEI Opera or a transgender comic book, I would question that person's judgment and competence in their job. I wouldn't say that was criminal but I would say that it would require some adverse job actions including possibly firing them.
 
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Sorry. I put out the incorrect number just now. These things fluctuate a great deal. I was looking at a couple different websites and doing the math between them. I was about 40 billion off.

www.forbes.com

Elon Musk Is The Biggest Loser From Trump’s Tariffs So Far

Musk, who last year said “things that inhibit freedom of exchange or distort the market are not good,” became $12 billion poorer Monday.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

FORBES VALUATION​

With a net worth of $410 billion, Musk is more than $150 billion richer than he was on Election Day and about $160 billion wealthier than the next-closest billionaire, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos.
 
sringwal said:
Sorry. I put out the incorrect number just now. These things fluctuate a great deal. I was looking at a couple different websites and doing the math between them. I was about 40 billion off.

www.forbes.com

Elon Musk Is The Biggest Loser From Trump’s Tariffs So Far

Musk, who last year said “things that inhibit freedom of exchange or distort the market are not good,” became $12 billion poorer Monday.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

FORBES VALUATION​

With a net worth of $410 billion, Musk is more than $150 billion richer than he was on Election Day and about $160 billion wealthier than the next-closest billionaire, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos.
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40 billion not a big deal with Musk
 
rodoheel said:
Let me be clear, I have no problem if Trump wants to advocate and push Congress to change USAID's funding priorities to stop funding things that it calls "DEI" (even though their description of that is hilariously broad). The problem is in (1) the President taking power over funding that is not his to take, and (2) trying to demonize and destroy USAID in its entirety on the basis of spurious claims that it is a criminal organization that is engaged in fraud and criminal activity. When the only "evidence" is a small minority of small grants that were used for things the Trump administration is now crusading against.

As for Congress: the solution to that is for Congress to do more and/or do better. Not to have Trump continue to justify a dramatic expansion of executive power - including the power to impound money, which he absolutely does not have - on the basis of clearly spurious claims about USAID being some nefarious anti-American organization.
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I generally agree with what you are saying and I hope the courts put a stop to this if Trump truly does not have the authority to do what he's doing. I'm not looking to scrap USAID but, in general, I'm at the point where I'd rather over scrap and then re-add as necessary and hopefully in an appropriate manner.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I hear your opinion and I respect it, but I have no problem holding someone accountable for pushing a political agenda with tax dollar funds meant for foreign aid. I'd much rather see that money spent on helping the less fortunate or put back towards the debt. Agree to disagree I suppose.
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1. Tax dollar spent on foreign aid is a minuscule part of the budget and some of the best money we spend as far as bang for the buck.

2. You know this is a political witch hunt based on where they're looking. If trump and musk really wanted to find waste fraud and abuse that would make a difference, they should look at the Department of Defense.

3. Who is gonna go after the wasteful spending with the US government contracts with spacex and starlink?
 
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ZenMode said:
I'm at the point where I'd rather over scrap and then re-add as necessary and hopefully in an appropriate manner.
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First of all, this is the kind of thing that’s easy to say when you don’t benefit (or don’t think you benefit) from government expenditures.

Second, why? What do you think is so dire that it requires such a drastic approach? I mean do you seriously want to scrap all sorts of health and safety regulations then just say “oopsie” if people die or get sick as a result?
 
sringwal said:
Sorry. I put out the incorrect number just now. These things fluctuate a great deal. I was looking at a couple different websites and doing the math between them. I was about 40 billion off.

www.forbes.com

Elon Musk Is The Biggest Loser From Trump’s Tariffs So Far

Musk, who last year said “things that inhibit freedom of exchange or distort the market are not good,” became $12 billion poorer Monday.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

FORBES VALUATION​

With a net worth of $410 billion, Musk is more than $150 billion richer than he was on Election Day and about $160 billion wealthier than the next-closest billionaire, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos.
Click to expand...
His net worth has increased more than 50% since election day?
 
ZenMode said:
I hope the courts put a stop to this if Trump truly does not have the authority to do what he's doing.
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What do you mean if? Trump can curtail or change USAID with executive actions alone; however, he cannot unilaterally override a statute by EO. USAID was established by statute as its own agency by Congress in 1998. Since an act of Congress established it as an independent agency, an act of Congress would be necessary to dissolve it.
 
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