Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”
- Thread starter nycfan
- Start date
- Replies: 3K
- Views: 118K
- Politics
- Messages
- 1,042
Ukraine needed to do this alone in order to create their own leverage against Putin. Russia would never consider any peace plan if US or EU were heavily involved in the planning or logistics of the operation. Plus, there’s the whole WWIII to worry about.
- Messages
- 1,984
As much as anything, they said that to communicate to Trump that he isn’t effectual, without saying he isn’t effectual. Same reason why they’re suggesting Biden was the cause for prolonging the war. It’s manipulation of Trump bc he’s the easiest US president to manipulate, by multiples, which is astounding when George W. Bush, Dipshit in Chief, is on the board. If they strategically trigger Trump’s patently obvious inferiority and aggrievement complexes they could potentially trigger substantially more US aid.
Additionally, it’s obvious the US is full of bad faith and plainly stupid partners, in addition to possessing SigInt security comparable to Johnny passing Janey notes in their 4th grade classroom.
Additionally, it’s obvious the US is full of bad faith and plainly stupid partners, in addition to possessing SigInt security comparable to Johnny passing Janey notes in their 4th grade classroom.
mynameisbond
Distinguished Member
- Messages
- 379
The Taco In Chief only cares about getting a win for himself. He wants a Nobel peace prize for brokering a deal. Ukraine had no choice but to take the bull by the horns. Brilliant move. I hope it pays dividends with the EU and puts some pressure on La Donald to distance himself from Putin.
Last edited:
lawtig02
Inconceivable Member
- Messages
- 3,327
Ram, could you explain what you're saying here? You and I disagree about most things, but I have a hunch we agree much more about Russia-Ukraine than about most other things. But as for "WWIII," I don't see any way a nuclear war is less likely in a world in which the US is strongly and unequivocally on the side of Ukrainian survival and success, as opposed to a world in which the US is either pro-Russia or neutral. I could buy that Russia needs to know Ukraine is capable of inflicting significant damage before a reasonable resolution is possible. I'm having a harder time buying that the US essentially dropping out of this conflict and leaving Ukraine to defend itself makes a "WWIII" less likely.
- Messages
- 1,162
In re WW3: The notion that Vlad "the Ras" Putin only wants a part of Ukraine is absurd. Vlad the Ras only wants the Eastern part of Ukraine in the same way that Hitler only wanted the Sudetenland. Does anyone doubt that any resolution of the Ukranian situation that met with Vlad the Ras' approval would be hailed by St. Donald of Mar-a-Lago as "Peace for our time"? IMO, the key difference between the Sudetenland and the part of Ukraine that Vlad the Ras claims is all he wants, is that the potential ultimate adversaries in this situation are armed with nuclear weapons. Fortunately for the US, Ukraine seems to have prioritized the reduction of Russian's nuclear strike force.
EVERY single action taken by St. Donald of Mar-a-Lago in this situation just screams that Vlad the Ras must have some truly awful Kompromat on St. Donald.
- Messages
- 1,042
No, I just meant that it wouldn't be a good look for the US/EU to be heavily involved in a military action that destroyed significant aircraft and equipment, etc. 3,000 miles in the interior of Russia. That moves the needle on the old doomsday clock. Russia's internal investigation will reveal that Ukraine was not assisted by the Western Allies and did not even give them a heads up on the mission.
Otherwise, I'm thrilled with what the Ukrainians accomplished. It's a game changer, further weakening Russia and significantly strengthening Ukraine's hand. Once the dust settles, and Putin gets his "revenge" by bombing Kiev and other parts of Ukraine, this action just might get us closer to a peace agreement. Z showed the world and the US (Trump) that Ukraine does have a card or two to play.
lawtig02
Inconceivable Member
- Messages
- 3,327
I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that today's talks did not result in much progress.
Russian and Ukrainian delegates met in Istanbul on Monday for their second set of direct peace talks, a day after Kyiv launched a shock drone attack on Russia’s nuclear-capable bombers, in an operation that President Volodymyr Zelensky said was a year and a half in the making.
The talks began late and lasted barely over an hour. Although both sides agreed to work on a new prisoner exchange, statements from the two sets of delegations suggested that little had been achieved to bridge the gulf between their positions, particularly on the matter of a ceasefire.
After the initial round of discussions in the Turkish city last month – the first between the warring countries since soon after Russia’s full-scale invasion in early 2022 – both sides agreed to share their conditions for a full ceasefire and a potentially lasting peace.
Russian state media agencies reported that Russia laid out two ceasefire “options” in its peace memorandum.
In the first option, Moscow will ask for the complete withdrawal of the Ukrainian Armed Forces (UAF) from Ukraine’s mainland Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia regions, RIA Novosti reported. Russia annexed those regions during its invasion in 2022, but has been unable to fully capture them in the years since.
In the second option, called a “package deal,” the UAF would have to demobilize, and all foreign military aid to Kyiv, including intelligence, would be halted, a summary of the memorandum published by RIA Novosti said.
Ukraine would also be prohibited from deploying and mobilizing its armed forces, and martial law in Ukraine would need to be lifted, with elections to be held no later than 100 days after it is lifted, the memorandum outlined.
It is not clear whether Ukraine can choose just one of the options, or whether it must agree to both.
The maximalist demands expand on the terms set by Russia during the 2022 trilateral talks held in Turkey.
In the past, Ukraine has refused Russian proposals for territorial concessions in exchange for peace.
Zelensky criticized Russia for not sharing its memorandum ahead of time. “Despite this,” he said before the talks began, “we will attempt to achieve at least some progress on the path toward peace.”
Russian and Ukrainian delegates met in Istanbul on Monday for their second set of direct peace talks, a day after Kyiv launched a shock drone attack on Russia’s nuclear-capable bombers, in an operation that President Volodymyr Zelensky said was a year and a half in the making.
The talks began late and lasted barely over an hour. Although both sides agreed to work on a new prisoner exchange, statements from the two sets of delegations suggested that little had been achieved to bridge the gulf between their positions, particularly on the matter of a ceasefire.
After the initial round of discussions in the Turkish city last month – the first between the warring countries since soon after Russia’s full-scale invasion in early 2022 – both sides agreed to share their conditions for a full ceasefire and a potentially lasting peace.
Russian state media agencies reported that Russia laid out two ceasefire “options” in its peace memorandum.
In the first option, Moscow will ask for the complete withdrawal of the Ukrainian Armed Forces (UAF) from Ukraine’s mainland Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia regions, RIA Novosti reported. Russia annexed those regions during its invasion in 2022, but has been unable to fully capture them in the years since.
In the second option, called a “package deal,” the UAF would have to demobilize, and all foreign military aid to Kyiv, including intelligence, would be halted, a summary of the memorandum published by RIA Novosti said.
Ukraine would also be prohibited from deploying and mobilizing its armed forces, and martial law in Ukraine would need to be lifted, with elections to be held no later than 100 days after it is lifted, the memorandum outlined.
It is not clear whether Ukraine can choose just one of the options, or whether it must agree to both.
The maximalist demands expand on the terms set by Russia during the 2022 trilateral talks held in Turkey.
In the past, Ukraine has refused Russian proposals for territorial concessions in exchange for peace.
Zelensky criticized Russia for not sharing its memorandum ahead of time. “Despite this,” he said before the talks began, “we will attempt to achieve at least some progress on the path toward peace.”
superrific
Legend of ZZL
- Messages
- 7,757
1. Whether they had to do it alone, they didn't have to say they were alone. That message was aimed at its "allies" in Washington, who seem to have completely given up on Ukraine.
2. Usually, when countries have allies, it makes them stronger. For Ukraine to have acted with EU support would put the Russians staring down the barrel of a larger gun. After all, if the EU was involved, then its assistance would not be theoretical. Russia would be given a sign that the EU means business.
It is hard for me to imagine how lying about having support from allies would benefit Ukraine in any way.
3. The reason Ukraine did it on its own is that it couldn't find a partner it could rely on. The Ukrainians aren't stupid: they know Trump was receiving national security briefings starting last summer. And of course Congress was receiving them as well. If the Ukrainians were to enlist US help, the Russians would have been ready and the plan would have failed. It needed to be a surprise job, which would be impossible if Trump knew anything about it.
whatntarnation
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 69
Ukraine has struck the Crimean Bridge. Detonated a large amount of explosive on a underwater support.
WaynetheDrain
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,114
So when is "Day One?" Is it tomorrow?
lawtig02
Inconceivable Member
- Messages
- 3,327
Come on now. You didn't realize he was just being sarcastic?
How Trump backed away from promising to end the Russia-Ukraine war in 24 hours
During his campaign, Donald Trump said repeatedly that he would be able to end the war between Russia and Ukraine “in 24 hours” upon taking office.
apnews.com
MARCH 14: Trump says he was “being a little bit sarcastic” when he repeatedly claimed as a candidate that he would have the Russia-Ukraine war solved within 24 hours.
“Well, I was being a little bit sarcastic when I said that,” Trump says in a clip released from an interview for the “Full Measure” television program. “What I really mean is I’d like to get it settled and, I’ll, I think, I think I’ll be successful.”
BlooVooDoo
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,533
He’s going to make a Day One national holiday, just as soon as he delivers on something noteworthy.
dukeman92
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,234
I was hopeful that yesterday's attack was just the tip of the iceberg. I think Ukraine has more up their sleeve.
dukeman92
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,234
I get what you're trying to say... and somewhat agree... but if the US & EU hadn't been funneling them weapons for so long, they probably aren't in a position to pull this off.
Uh........knowing the Russian propaganda machine, what their investigation shows and what Russia says it shows (publicly) are two different things. I would think its 100% that Russia will claim Ukraine had help. Can't have their population thinking the Nazi Ukrainian regime could pull this off by themselves.
Seem like I posted in the last month that it was puzzling why Ukraine was not doing much to attack Russia's rail system which is mostly powered by electricity. Well, in the last few days there are reports of other rail bridges being blown up.. Two or three I believe. And now this, which appears to have been a hit on the rail side of the Crimean Bridge.
Wouldn't want to ever play chess with any of these Ukrainians. The timing of their moves is impeccable.
1moretimeagain
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,421
Trump’s been mighty quiet
dukeman92
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,234
Zelenskyy humiliated Trump and Putin yesterday.
superrific
Legend of ZZL
- Messages
- 7,757
Well, Ukrainians and Russians alike tend to be great chess players . . .
I suspect the calculus goes like this:
A. Ukraine can destroy as much infrastructure as it wants, but it cannot win a long war of attrition. Peace is therefore of great importance.
B. You can't get to a peace deal with that level of aggression.
C. So Z needed to give peace a chance, so to speak. At the very least, he needed to present Ukraine as striving for peace, for the benefit of its European allies one supposes. And he did that. But Russia doesn't want peace.
D. Meanwhile, Ukraine was setting up multiple surprise attacks. Unleashing them all at once is perhaps particularly frightening for Russia -- how much else can they do? In other words, Z is hoping for a Tet Offensive type of effect, where Ukraine demonstrates to Russia that it cannot win the war without massive losses and maybe Russia will lose the stomach for a long fight.