Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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Burn Russia, Burn!!!!!! That's one way to stop the war.

You know, if Putin loses power and the war, I can't help but wonder what kind of depression Trump will go into?
 
Think i am at a point where I need a break from the board. i can't handle this much Trump and he is everywhere these days, just oozing is stupid and fragile self-worth on everything.

I never though the fall of democracy would be so... moronic.
 
altmin said:
Think i am at a point where I need a break from the board. i can't handle this much Trump and he is everywhere these days, just oozing is stupid and fragile self-worth on everything.

I never though the fall of democracy would be so... moronic.
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Every press conference is like a remake of Space Balls, but less funny. Thanks Ram. Thanks calla.
 
altmin said:
Think i am at a point where I need a break from the board. i can't handle this much Trump and he is everywhere these days, just oozing is stupid and fragile self-worth on everything.

I never though the fall of democracy would be so... moronic.
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He has definitely taken all the oxygen and then some since Congress tucked tail a scurried home …
 
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🎁 —> https://www.wsj.com/opinion/why-ukr...b?st=Sa3GxS&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

“… Russia wants the entire region of Donetsk, including the 25% that Ukraine still controls, an unoccupied swath larger than Delaware. A heavily reinforced defensive line, known as the fortress belt, has stopped the Russians from rolling deeper westward, and Ukraine has no plans to surrender the area.

Ukraine began strengthening the 31-mile belt more than a decade ago, and the Russians have lost men and weapons whenever they bashed themselves against it. Penetrating it by force would take years, according to the Institute for the Study of War—so Mr. Putin seeks to seize it through negotiations instead.

Ukraine knows the consequences of allowing itself to be stripped of its strength. Under the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, Kyiv surrendered its nuclear arsenal in exchange for security guarantees from the U.S., U.K. and Russia. Those promises failed to deter Mr. Putin’s 2014 and 2022 invasions.

Mr. Putin has been ruthless in past dealings. In 2014, after he promised a “humanitarian corridor” to save surrounded Ukrainian soldiers in the eastern city of Ilovaisk, Ukrainian troops laid down their weapons—only to be ambushed and massacred.

… If Kyiv were to cede Donetsk, Ukrainian and European forces would be responsible for securing more than 2,000 miles of frontier, including the line of contact and the borders with Russia and Belarus.

… Deterrence would be further weakened if Russia gained full control of Donetsk, given that the loss of a fortress belt would put Ukrainian and European forces in a less defensible position. Russia would gain a prime outpost to threaten the neighboring regions of Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhzhia. The Ukrainians and their Western partners would have to rush to erect new fortifications, including on terrain that’s more vulnerable.

The next comparably advantageous defensive line would be the Dnipro River, much further west.

Mr. Putin pitches the surrender of Donetsk as a condition to end the war. Ukrainians know any such concession would enable Russian aggression, not end it.“
 
This can't end unless Putin can get something in return for the Russian blood he has spilled
Ukraine needs to figure out hot to give him something without giving him anything
 
The one thing the war is not about..........is land. Russia already has more then enough land over 11 time zones or something. So giving land away has no value for a permanent peace.

If you go back to the first weeks of the war, you know the war is not about land. When the invasion failed, Putin simple changed targets and the direction of the invasion in the hope of achieving his ultimate objective. Everyone knows all this, except perhaps the peacemaker in chief.
 
BlueSmoke said:
The one thing the war is not about..........is land. Russia already has more then enough land over 11 time zones or something. So giving land away has no value for a permanent peace.

If you go back to the first weeks of the war, you know the war is not about land. When the invasion failed, Putin simple changed targets and the direction of the invasion in the hope of achieving his ultimate objective. Everyone knows all this, except perhaps the peacemaker in chief.
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Putin never thinks he has enough land.

Moreover, Russians moved to the border areas of all the republics during the Soviet period as part of the Russification of the USSR. As a result, Russians are now a significant minority in all the provinces that abut Russia -- not just in Ukraine but in almost all of the former Soviet republics. As a result, that gives Russia a motivation to interfere in the domestic politics of all the neighboring states -- under the guise of protecting the Russian minority.

Moreover, Russia has always wanted border states due to a millennium of invasions. It is deeply ingrained in Russian psychology. So, regardless how many time zones Russia spans, Russians are insecure about their Western border, and want servile client states to the west.
 
Calheel said:
Putin never thinks he has enough land.

Moreover, Russians moved to the border areas of all the republics during the Soviet period as part of the Russification of the USSR. As a result, Russians are now a significant minority in all the provinces that abut Russia -- not just in Ukraine but in almost all of the former Soviet republics. As a result, that gives Russia a motivation to interfere in the domestic politics of all the neighboring states -- under the guise of protecting the Russian minority.

Moreover, Russia has always wanted border states due to a millennium of invasions. It is deeply ingrained in Russian psychology. So, regardless how many time zones Russia spans, Russians are insecure about their Western border, and want servile client states to the west.
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Russians like the advantage of getting more land of course. And I am sure they enjoy having their enemies that much further away and such. Those are side motivations and we shouldn't be distracted by them.

The real motivation for this war has nothing to do with land and therefore negotiating land away won't lead to permanent peace. This war is about destroying the threat to Russia that a Democratic Ukraine and all its ramifications represents

Putin took the 2011 Russian protests really, really bad. So bad, he set about soon after to eliminate any place that the Russian people could get such ideas. Ukraine and its 2014 ouster of its pro Putin President soon landed in his cross hairs and Ukraine has been the center of his attention ever since. Heck, Putin was plenty satisfied just having a friendly Ukrainian government up to that point. He didn't care about their land up to then. .
 
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