Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

[Geisterfahrer]

Pretty much. I think this board is happy the events turned out like they did today. If he is able to pull it off and achieves a peace deal then its a win for trump and they couldn't stomach that. If russia pulled out of ukraine today, including crimea, this board would find some reason to bitch. Today was bad. Optically really bad, but eventually it will get done for the reasons you mentioned. Acting as if biden was doing anything other than forking over weapons and cash is their default. When pressed to give details about what biden was doing to end the war the default is to insult somebody or something.

What is your take on the days events?

Biden forking over weapons and cash, along with Europe, is literally what saved Ukraine. Your constant bad faith bullshit is irritating.

 

[wmheel1287]

Similar to yours. I would have preferred a more traditional diplomatic meeting between two allies.

It should have initially been a private meeting so they could air out their frustrations behind closed doors. Signing ceremony then, do a scripted joint presser and finish with lunch. This is especially true since clearly Trump and Vance do not like Zelensky and are tired of his schtick

I blame Zelensky and his team for not knowing his audience and reading the room. Showing up in his GI Joe Uniform (would it have been too much to put on a suit?) clearly irked Trump from the get go. Then, Zelensky felt the need to lecture and correct the President in the White House. Contrast this to Macron and Starmer who were real pros and made a genuine effort to act warmly and appropriately in the presence of Trump (he is who he is) and had done their homework in what to do and not to do in a meeting with this President.

It's very early in the negotiation process and everyone's nerves are frayed, particularly Ukraine's, but the process will continue on. Note it is reported that Zelensky and the Ukrainian team were begging for the meeting to not end. Trump loved that thinking he's put Ukraine in its place. But I think everyone looked bad today. It will play out but will be ugly. Putin is admittedly enjoying this for now as we, very publicly, sort out our issues with our ally/client but eventually we'll turn and demand concessions from Russia.

Love that you focus on Zelinsky's attire. We are in agreement there. Now, what about Elon?

 

[UNCRx85]

Pretty much. I think this board is happy the events turned out like they did today. If he is able to pull it off and achieves a peace deal then its a win for trump and they couldn't stomach that. If russia pulled out of ukraine today, including crimea, this board would find some reason to bitch. Today was bad. Optically really bad, but eventually it will get done for the reasons you mentioned. Acting as if biden was doing anything other than forking over weapons and cash is their default. When pressed to give details about what biden was doing to end the war the default is to insult somebody or something.

You should take advantage of this weather and touch some grass.

 

[rodoheel]

Pretty much. I think this board is happy the events turned out like they did today. If he is able to pull it off and achieves a peace deal then its a win for trump and they couldn't stomach that. If russia pulled out of ukraine today, including crimea, this board would find some reason to bitch. Today was bad. Optically really bad, but eventually it will get done for the reasons you mentioned. Acting as if biden was doing anything other than forking over weapons and cash is their default. When pressed to give details about what biden was doing to end the war the default is to insult somebody or something.

Has anyone on the board said they are happy with the day's events? Of course not. This is a disgrace. I want peace. A peace negotiated with the weight of the US of freaking A thrown behind Ukraine to bring Russia to heel and to a settlement that accounts for what Russia has done. If Trump can truly negotiate a peace that is beneficial for Ukraine, not for Russia, I'll give him credit for it. But him literally siding with Putin against our ally is a disgrace. He is destroying a world order that has kept Americans largely safe and will replace it with a much more dangerous and hostile world, one where we have many fewer friends.

 

[4thgenheel]

Similar to yours. I would have preferred a more traditional diplomatic meeting between two allies.

It should have initially been a private meeting so they could air out their frustrations behind closed doors. Signing ceremony then, do a scripted joint presser and finish with lunch. This is especially true since clearly Trump and Vance do not like Zelensky and are tired of his schtick

I blame Zelensky and his team for not knowing his audience and reading the room. Showing up in his GI Joe Uniform (would it have been too much to put on a suit?) clearly irked Trump from the get go. Then, Zelensky felt the need to lecture and correct the President in the White House. Contrast this to Macron and Starmer who were real pros and made a genuine effort to act warmly and appropriately in the presence of Trump (he is who he is) and had done their homework in what to do and not to do in a meeting with this President.

It's very early in the negotiation process and everyone's nerves are frayed, particularly Ukraine's, but the process will continue on. Note it is reported that Zelensky and the Ukrainian team were begging for the meeting to not end. Trump loved that thinking he's put Ukraine in its place. But I think everyone looked bad today. It will play out but will be ugly. Putin is admittedly enjoying this for now as we, very publicly, sort out our issues with our ally/client but eventually we'll turn and demand concessions from Russia.

your commentary here on zelenskyy is nauseating and absurd. he did nothing wrong. full stop. he always dresses like that and the entire interaction was recorded for the world to see - trump and vance are the ones who were aggressive and inappropriate. that was classic schoolyard bully behavior. pathetic.

and macron and starmer? france and england aren't in year three of a Russian invasion/war. get a fucking grip.

 

[CFordUNC]

Has anyone on the board said they are happy with the day's events? Of course not. This is a disgrace. I want peace. A peace negotiated with the weight of the US of freaking A thrown behind Ukraine to bring Russia to heel and to a settlement that accounts for what Russia has done. If Trump can truly negotiate a peace that is beneficial for Ukraine, not for Russia, I'll give him credit for it. But him literally siding with Putin against our ally is a disgrace. He is destroying a world order that has kept Americans largely safe and will replace it with a much more dangerous and hostile world, one where we have many fewer friends.

Well, but you see, we could’ve had all of that, were it not for our board Trumpers’ bizarre fixations on wondering about the genitalia of the people taking a leak or a dump in the stall next to them in a public restroom. Remember, you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelette.

 

[Enigma94]

Because you can't. You are stumped when pressed for details. Nothing about any deal with putin has been made public. So disingenuous and full of bullshit. Someone is being obtuse but it isn't me.

I have enumerated my position on Ukraine and how Trump is fucking it up multiple times. I’m done explaining things to idiots like you.

 

[Calheel]

Thank the good Lord that today’s Republicans were not around in the 1940’s or else the entire European continent and most of Africa would be speaking Deutsch, and the entire Pacific rim- and perhaps even some of the US West Coast – would be speaking Japanese.

Or 1770s America.

Hey colonists, try looking at this from King George's point of view. It costs money to protect the colonies. It is only reasonable that the colonists bear that expense. And you cannot seriously expect representation in Parliament. It is far too long of a voyage to have meaningful representation. And really, if you hadn't been flirting with France, we would not have needed to crack down on you. Ultimately, you are just being unreasonable.

 

[aGDevil2k]

You should take advantage of this weather and touch some grass.

He needs to smoke some grass

 

[superrific]

Biden did nothing to prevent Russia from invading Ukraine other than stating "DON'T" - real effective.

You left out the part where he warned the world what was coming, preemptively rebutted Russia's propaganda, and put together a global coalition to defend Ukraine. Sanctions on Russia to deplete their fighting ability, frozen assets of oligarchs that might be used to compensate Ukraine when this is over, etc.

It was the single most effective response to sovereign aggression in my lifetime. Even Barack wouldn't have done as well. And that Russia has nukes makes it all the more intrepid, bold and principled.

 

[Wheels81]

 

[superrific]

Bull fucking shit. You really are a troll m-fer aren’t you.

The comment struck me as sarcastic.

 

[Centerpiece]

I think some of this was planned. Not sure who decided to do this meeting and negotiations in front of 50 cameras. I'm going to assume it was Trump so he could prove he was tough but could be zielinski so that he could get American opinion on his side.

It was all planned, don’t be so naive. And trust me, trump lost Americans today.

 

[Huh?]

You left out the part where he warned the world what was coming, preemptively rebutted Russia's propaganda, and put together a global coalition to defend Ukraine. Sanctions on Russia to deplete their fighting ability, frozen assets of oligarchs that might be used to compensate Ukraine when this is over, etc.

It was the single most effective response to sovereign aggression in my lifetime. Even Barack wouldn't have done as well. And that Russia has nukes makes it all the more intrepid, bold and principled.

A-freaking-men, brother. A-freaking-men.

My complaint with Biden prior to his ascension to the Presidency is that he seemed to get all the 50-50 decisions wrong when he was in the Senate. But I was wrong. When it came to the onset of the Ukraine war, he nailed the response. He absolutely stuck the landing, and he doesn't get enough credit for it.

 

[Duke Mu]

Apropos headline - I don't think we've just begun drinking too much!

 

[Duke Mu]

It was all planned, don’t be so naive. And trust me, trump lost Americans today.

He's self-destructive. Unfortunately, the US is in the crossfire.

 

[dukeman92]

We will pay for this day for many years to come.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

I would love to know the details about what went into the decision to bring cameras into the room. My guess is it was trump's but that was a really bad move on his part.

JFC. Do you think Zelensky invited a full press corp assembly to the Oval Office? It was a bad move on Trump’s part only if he was acting in a good faith, honest broker capacity. Not even you are dumb enough to believe that. Maybe I’m wrong on that point, in which case I’ll ask do you play poker?

 

[Huh?]

This seems to be operating under the premise that Putin will agree with Ukraine joining the EU and getting security guarantees from Europe and the US as long as they don't join NATO. I don't think Putin would agree to that at all. The whole point for Putin is to be able to control and dominate a weak Ukraine. He can't do that if they're part of the EU and have a security guarantee from the US and Europe. That basically creates, in the aggregate, the reasons why Putin doesn't want Ukraine in NATO; he doesn't want them under either the economic influence of the West or protected militarily by the West,

Fair point. If we were engaged in a proper pre-negotiation phase - and we clearly aren't - I would argue that we have leverage to press for EU optionality based on:

- the economic impacts of the war on Russia might be existential to the regime over the next 24 months.
- getting the Donbass allows him to declare victory internally.
- international recognition of the Crimean annexation is important to him.

In the current Trumpy environment, the concessions we've made prior to entering negotiations means that none of this matters.

 

[Ramrouser]

You left out the part where he warned the world what was coming, preemptively rebutted Russia's propaganda, and put together a global coalition to defend Ukraine. Sanctions on Russia to deplete their fighting ability, frozen assets of oligarchs that might be used to compensate Ukraine when this is over, etc.

It was the single most effective response to sovereign aggression in my lifetime. Even Barack wouldn't have done as well. And that Russia has nukes makes it all the more intrepid, bold and principled.

I’ve given Biden credit for his response to the invasion in the weeks following Russia’s commencement of hostilities. No one wanted Russia to take over Ukraine and put Western Europe in danger. But it’s fairly easy to build a European coalition when Russia starts a land war in Eastern Europe ( first in 80 years) and nothing stands in the way of Russia invading their country except the Ukrainian army. Pretty easy to motivate Western Europe to act in their own self defense. For this reason I would rank higher GHW Bush’s coalition in the first Gulf War.