Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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Ramrouser said:
It’s not the main thing, just one of many slights and mistakes on Z’s part. Y’all are focusing on it.

Having said that, if a bride’s family invited you to a wedding and the invitation clearly stated the attire was formal/semi formal, do you show up dressed like Fetterman? Does it change your opinion if the bride allows her eccentric nephew (on the spectrum) to wear what he wants? Good manners count.
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Just so we’re clear here, you’re totally ignoring the facts that:

  • Trump tried to withhold funding from Ukraine if Zelensky didn’t start up (or at least publicly announce he was starting up) a bogus investigation into the Biden family.
  • Trump has repeatedly taken Putin’s side in virtually everything, including his invasion of Ukraine.
  • Trump has blamed Zelensky for the war, and has called him a dictator.
  • Trump offered Zelensky a “deal” that included handing over mineral rights without a guarantee of future support, should Putin break the deal (as he’s done repeatedly since 2014).

But yeah, Zelensky disrespected Trump by not dressing up in a suit while kneeling down to kiss his ring and thank him for the opportunity to be sodomized on live global broadcast TV.
 
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Ramrouser said:
Having said that, if a bride’s family invited you to a wedding and the invitation clearly stated the attire was formal/semi formal, do you show up dressed like Fetterman? Does it change your opinion if the bride allows her eccentric nephew (on the spectrum) to wear what he wants? Good manners count.
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Suppose you do show up in whatever Z was wearing. Would you expect the bride to kick you out, torch your car, and kick you in the nuts? Oh, you wouldn't? That would be illegal, in addition to rude and way, way, way more obnoxious than whatever outfit you were wearing. It would also be universally considered an overreaction, and nobody in their right mind would support her.
 
Ramrouser said:
It’s not the main thing, just one of many slights and mistakes on Z’s part. Y’all are focusing on it.

Having said that, if a bride’s family invited you to a wedding and the invitation clearly stated the attire was formal/semi formal, do you show up dressed like Fetterman? Does it change your opinion if the bride allows her eccentric nephew (on the spectrum) to wear what he wants? Good manners count.
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Who gives a fuck what he had on? The man is trying to prevent his country from falling to a murdering dictator. And as for your last sentence, Trump sure as shit didn’t show any manners. What was Z suppose to do? Grovel on the floor before Trump like Gollum wanting to swear on The Precious? But if that’s the best you can come up with, then you know your god figure screwed the pooch.
 
EyeballKid said:
After last week’s meeting,

Just so we’re clear here, you’re totally ignoring the facts that:

  • Trump tried to withhold funding from Ukraine if Zelensky didn’t start up (or at least publicly announce he was starting up) a bogus investigation into the Biden family.
  • Trump has repeatedly taken Putin’s side in virtually everything, including his invasion of Ukraine.
  • Trump has blamed Zelensky for the war, and has called him a dictator.
  • Trump offered Zelensky a “deal” that included handing over mineral rights without a guarantee of future support, should Putin break the deal (as he’s done repeatedly since 2014).

But yeah, Zelensky disrespected Trump by not dressing up in a suit while kneeling down to kiss his ring and thank him for the opportunity to be sodomized on live global broadcast TV.
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A protection racket...without the "protection" part.
 
Ramrouser said:
It’s not the main thing, just one of many slights and mistakes on Z’s part. Y’all are focusing on it.

Having said that, if a bride’s family invited you to a wedding and the invitation clearly stated the attire was formal/semi formal, do you show up dressed like Fetterman? Does it change your opinion if the bride allows her eccentric nephew (on the spectrum) to wear what he wants? Good manners count.
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Zelensky dresses the way he does because he is respecting the way his war torn country has to dress
jesus-look at orangeturds spray on tan and screwed up prissy , transvetite like hair
Doesn't that make you pause?
 
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Ramrouser said:
It’s not the main thing, just one of many slights and mistakes on Z’s part. Y’all are focusing on it.

Having said that, if a bride’s family invited you to a wedding and the invitation clearly stated the attire was formal/semi formal, do you show up dressed like Fetterman? Does it change your opinion if the bride allows her eccentric nephew (on the spectrum) to wear what he wants? Good manners count.
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“Months after war broke out between Russia and Ukraine, then-President Joe Biden had a fiery private phone call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, which included Biden allegedly losing "his temper" and calling on Ukraine to "show a little more gratitude" towards the U.S. for its support, a resurfaced 2022 NBC News report shows.’
 
4thgenheel said:
churchill spent years imploring, essentially doing the diplomatic version of begging, the US to enter the war. the splendid and the vile by erik larson is a fun read i recently finished about this time period.

the brits certainly didn't want a bunch of americans to get slaughtered at pearl harbor but they were pretty relieved when it happened.
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Great book!!
 
EyeballKid said:
Even if he does, why the fuck would you think that Zelensky was the disrespectful party in the negotiation?
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It’s pretty self evident. You don’t lecture and argue with the potus and vp in his office on national TV for any reason. Doesn’t matter if you like him or not. You can call his mother a whore if you want behind closed doors but not in his office and on TV. So yes, trump and Vance weren’t the only ones being disrespectful. Zel represented the disrespect quite well.
 
Callatoroy said:
“Months after war broke out between Russia and Ukraine, then-President Joe Biden had a fiery private phone call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, which included Biden allegedly losing "his temper" and calling on Ukraine to "show a little more gratitude" towards the U.S. for its support, a resurfaced 2022 NBC News report shows.’
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I recall the conversation, as reported, as going something like this:

Z: We need to be able to strike targets inside Russia. Please take that condition off.
B: I won't.
Z: But then we will not be able to win, and your weaponry won't be useful.
B: I can't risk starting a broader war
Z: I thought you were helping us.
B: We are helping you. Show a little more gratitude.

And if the conversation went like that, I've no problem with either person's behavior. Obviously they didn't do it in public, and Biden didn't seem to let it affect his policy. So what happens behind closed doors doesn't really matter. Until you're put in the situation where you have to have these discussions, you shouldn't judge.

The problem isn't that Trump was rude to Z. Personally, I think the thing about the attire is stupid, but if Trump felt the need to dress Z down backstage, that's boorish but not a national emergency so long as they walk out to do what they were supposed to do. The problem is he did it out in the open, and he's now letting it affect our policy, which is an absolute no-no. Or, more likely, it was a ruse to create an excuse for Trump doing Putin's bidding, which is even worse. Either way, it's categorically different and more harmful.
 
Callatoroy said:
“Months after war broke out between Russia and Ukraine, then-President Joe Biden had a fiery private phone call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, which included Biden allegedly losing "his temper" and calling on Ukraine to "show a little more gratitude" towards the U.S. for its support, a resurfaced 2022 NBC News report shows.’
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The key word here is private. That’s when you vent differences. Not in a public forum.
 
Callatoroy said:
“Months after war broke out between Russia and Ukraine, then-President Joe Biden had a fiery private phone call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, which included Biden allegedly losing "his temper" and calling on Ukraine to "show a little more gratitude" towards the U.S. for its support, a resurfaced 2022 NBC News report shows.’
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Fox News doing damage control here just goes to underscore how completely shameful Trump and Vance were.
 
Ramrouser said:
If you visit someone’s home and they ask you to remove your shoes upon entering, you do it. Z showed no respect to the President and the decorum inside the Oval Office. His attire was just one example of his disrespect.

It’s not soft. Reagan wouldn’t even take off his jacket in the Oval and would have had Z promptly removed upon observing his attire.
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That analogy only works if someone from the Trump admin asked Z to wear a suit to the meeting and he refused to do it.

A more apt analogy would be if you threw a dinner party where people were dressed up nicely, and one of your guests who came a long way showed up in a t-shirt and shorts. Are you going to be rude and unwelcoming toward your guest, or are you going to be a gracious host?

There was nothing disrespectful about what Zelensky was wearing. He’s been trying to lead a country that was attacked by another country led by a tyrant and is in a fight— within its borders— to maintain its sovereignty and its territory. He was wearing what he has been wearing for the past 2+ years. No one with at least half a brain and a trace of humanity should give a shit about what Zelensky was wearing. And the fact is they wouldn’t have, but MAGA has identified Zelensky a someone that Trump doesn’t like so that gives them a stupid reason to mindlessly fall in line with the MAGA pile-on. He is (or least was) an ally who came as a guest and should have been treated with respect, as an ally and guest should be treated, but he was instead treated like shit. It was beyond shameful.
 
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