Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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OMG I just watched it. I'm ashamed of us. Nobody's going to separate good muricans from bad muricans so thanks Calla/Ramrsr/Zen et al hopefully you are happy (I got nothing)like Lindsay.
ETA
Sorry no excuse for my language nor other mentioned. All are inexcusable. Mea culpa.
 
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SmilingJack said:
OMG I just watched it. I'm ashamed of us. Nobody's going to separate good muricans from bad muricans so thanks Calla/Ramrsr/Zen et al hopefully you are happy slurping like Lindsay.
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[This is for everyone as we see this sort of language a lot] I would really appreciate if we didn’t use insults about sexuality, even for public figures. Plenty of other ways to vent.
 
aGDevil2k said:
Reported.
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rodoheel said:
Has anyone on the board said they are happy with the day's events? Of course not. This is a disgrace. I want peace. A peace negotiated with the weight of the US of freaking A thrown behind Ukraine to bring Russia to heel and to a settlement that accounts for what Russia has done. If Trump can truly negotiate a peace that is beneficial for Ukraine, not for Russia, I'll give him credit for it. But him literally siding with Putin against our ally is a disgrace. He is destroying a world order that has kept Americans largely safe and will replace it with a much more dangerous and hostile world, one where we have many fewer friends.
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What does that peace deal look like (beneficial to ukraine and not for russia)? Why would russia ever agree to anything that wasn't beneficial to them? How would it be structured to bring russia to heel?
 
Callatoroy said:
lol if you call that negotiations.
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Putin claimed he hadn't heard from the Biden administration in 3.5 years. You believed him. I showed you where the Biden administration was backchanneling with Putin literally 2 years ago. You claim it doesn't count.

Because it's really important to you that you not be wrong. We get it. But c'mon man.
 
StrangePackage said:
Putin claimed he hadn't heard from the Biden administration in 3.5 years. You believed him. I showed you where the Biden administration was backchanneling with Putin literally 2 years ago. You claim it doesn't count.

Because it's really important to you that you not be wrong. We get it. But c'mon man.
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“The discussions have taken place with the knowledge of the Biden administration but not at its direction”. Seriously? That is what you want to use to make your point? It further illustrates how weak and ineffective biden was. This isn’t something you delegate to “former officials”.
 
05C40 said:
President Trump's performance today was the most disgusting public display of obeisance to a foreign entity by an American politician I have seen or heard in my life. From this point on, any argument that Vlad "the Ras" Putin does not have St. Donald of Mar-a-Lago's genitals in his pocket is presumptively a bad faith argument.
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Speaking of which, I was surprised that Vance was able to get Trump's member out of his mouth long enough to insult Zelenskyy. They are an embarrassment.
 
Somepne asked me which character Trump would be in
Godfather 1 and 2.
I'd guess the self-control of Sonny, the smarts of Fredo, but overall he is our version of Don Fanucci
 
wmheel1287 said:
YOU said people here were happy about today.
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Yea, I mean secretly. I wouldn’t expect you would post your glee. That wouldn’t look good would it? The opposite would you guys were all hoping this deal would get done and trump gets a big win. That wouldn’t fly either would it? So I went with the first and most likely scenario.
 
Bobfripp said:


I know this would be cruel to Estonia, but could we trade leaders?
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This is one way that today’s stunt could backfire on Trump.

If the major European countries show a united front in support of Ukraine and are able to turn the tide of the war, it will make Trump look incredibly weak.

In fact, most hate Trump and are probably salivating at the prospect.
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
This is one way that today’s stunt could backfire on Trump.

If the major European countries show a united front in support of Ukraine and are able to turn the tide of the war, it will make Trump look incredibly weak.

In fact, most hate Trump and are probably salivating at the prospect.
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I really don't think Trump would mind one bit if the Europeans took more of the defense burden against Russia. He has been pushing that for about a decade at this point.
 
Callatoroy said:
What does that peace deal look like (beneficial to ukraine and not for russia)? Why would russia ever agree to anything that wasn't beneficial to them? How would it be structured to bring russia to heel?
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Trump is trying to get Ukraine to agree to something that isn't beneficial to them. Why do you think it's a better strategy to try to browbeat our ally into a bad deal than to try to force our enemy into a bad deal?

But in any event, the "good deal" for Putin will be the lifting of sanctions and the chance to stop throwing away his economy and his people on an unprovoked invasion of his neighbor. Any deal for Putin that involves him still in charge of Russia and not on trial for war crimes is a "good deal" for Putin. Trump can use his tough-guy persona, the art of the deal bullshit, to try to intimidate Putin, not our own ally. The problem, if course, is that he's essentially on Putin's side because he sympathizes more with Putin than Zelensky. Trump wants the level of power and control Putin has. He wants a "might makes right" world order where when he says jump, everyone else says how high. That's the whole problem here.

Any fool can see that allowing Putin to keep territorial gains as a part of a peace settlement - rather than demand he give back the territory he invaded - is a slap in the face to Ukraine and will simply encourage future belligerence.
 
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