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Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”
- Thread starter nycfan
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lawtig02
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An era in which it was common for countries to be invaded by their neighbors.
I may be getting forgetful, but seems like the original idea for a ceasefire to come ahead of a negotiated settlement came from Trump and Zelenskyy has simply adopted it. And of all things, having the ceasefire come first seems to be putting Putin in a bind and of course that's hitting Trump. So I welcome that.
He's Not Here
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well, let's see. He was supposed to solve it in 1 day (which is apparently more than 4 months). So, by that math, it will be more than 56 months.
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How Russia’s Call for Peace Talks Turned Into a Diplomatic Defeat for Putin
Germany, France, the U.K. and Poland outmaneuvered Putin by persuading Ukraine’s Zelensky to accept Trump’s cease-fire demand; Russia’s leader balked
—> https://www.wsj.com/world/russia-pu...9b?st=ryyAi7&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink——
Let’s face it though, the only person who needs convincing is Trump and hard to see how anything changes his weird love of Putin.
"weird love of Putin".
Well, understandable love of Putin. A conman like Trump, has no need for the rest of us. We're his victims. He uses the spoils he gets from his victims to trade with other corrupt people like Putin and Middle Eastern leaders to enrich himself.
Well, understandable love of Putin. A conman like Trump, has no need for the rest of us. We're his victims. He uses the spoils he gets from his victims to trade with other corrupt people like Putin and Middle Eastern leaders to enrich himself.
Russian casualty numbers seem to be trending down. Hoping this is a sign that the Russian war effort is running out of steam. Kinda think Putin doesn't know how to get out of this war with something he can call a victory. So he is demanding that Trump hand him a victory or Putin won't play with Trump. Trouble with that is that all Trump can do is a ceasefire. Needs Ukraine to corporate for anything more.
Any kind of ceasefire might be a disaster for Putin. It's a very long border. No way Putin could maintain his restless and criminal army guarding it for any activity by Ukraine.
Putin and Trump are trying to dance together on this. But they are out of step with each other and the Ukrainian music.
Any kind of ceasefire might be a disaster for Putin. It's a very long border. No way Putin could maintain his restless and criminal army guarding it for any activity by Ukraine.
Putin and Trump are trying to dance together on this. But they are out of step with each other and the Ukrainian music.
Batt Boy
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List of Russian demands (Bloomberg published them, probably other sources as well) for cease fire/peace:
1. Ukraine must adopt a neutral status without the presence of foreign troops or weapons of mass destruction on its territory.
2. Kiev must renounce its demands for reparations from Moscow.
3. Ukraine must come to terms with the loss of Crimea and four other regions.
4. Putin will agree to a ceasefire only after Ukraine withdraws its troops from these regions.
5. The Kremlin wants all five regions to be recognized as Russian at the international level.
Ukrainian and Western press are already calling them hard line however I see a lot to work with here. First and second demand are standard and should have been expected. NATO expansion is probably the reason this whole thing started and the victor doesn't pay war reparations, this is standard practice. Third, fourth and fifth demand are basically the same, recognizing Crimea plus 4 regions as Russian. This is also expected, however there could be wiggle room here for negotiations.
If I were advising Ukraine, I would propose Ukraine keep city of Kherson and all the land on its side of the Dnieper river as well as Zaporozhye city proper and the land west of it (relinquishing the rest of Zaporozhye to Russia) while on the other hand offering lands in Dnieper Petrovsk (scarcely populated although territorialy significant) and Kharkov region (probably the city of Kupyansk and land to the Oskil river making it a border). This way Ukraine keeps Dnieper as its border and keeps major population centers under its control while Russia gains more land than it would previously including the hard fought regions around Kupyansk any Lyman.
Whether anyone likes it or not Russia is going to expand its territory and even according to Ukrainians there is a major summer offensive coming after which we could be speaking about Crimea plus six regions so Ukraine needs to negotiate now and get a better deal than it would be towards the end of the year.
Noticeably absent are Russia's demand for denazification and demilitarization. The first is Russia's signal that it would not have any say in future Ukrainian government (Zelensky can stay in power). This is an olive branch to Zelensky, and the second allows Ukraine to have as much troops and equipment as it wants/can get, placing no restrictions on them (apart from WMD), which is an olive branch to Ukrainian right wing hardliners.
Overall, even if it looks harsh on the first glance, there is much to work with here, nobody should expect the terms after three years of war to be mild.
1. Ukraine must adopt a neutral status without the presence of foreign troops or weapons of mass destruction on its territory.
2. Kiev must renounce its demands for reparations from Moscow.
3. Ukraine must come to terms with the loss of Crimea and four other regions.
4. Putin will agree to a ceasefire only after Ukraine withdraws its troops from these regions.
5. The Kremlin wants all five regions to be recognized as Russian at the international level.
Ukrainian and Western press are already calling them hard line however I see a lot to work with here. First and second demand are standard and should have been expected. NATO expansion is probably the reason this whole thing started and the victor doesn't pay war reparations, this is standard practice. Third, fourth and fifth demand are basically the same, recognizing Crimea plus 4 regions as Russian. This is also expected, however there could be wiggle room here for negotiations.
If I were advising Ukraine, I would propose Ukraine keep city of Kherson and all the land on its side of the Dnieper river as well as Zaporozhye city proper and the land west of it (relinquishing the rest of Zaporozhye to Russia) while on the other hand offering lands in Dnieper Petrovsk (scarcely populated although territorialy significant) and Kharkov region (probably the city of Kupyansk and land to the Oskil river making it a border). This way Ukraine keeps Dnieper as its border and keeps major population centers under its control while Russia gains more land than it would previously including the hard fought regions around Kupyansk any Lyman.
Whether anyone likes it or not Russia is going to expand its territory and even according to Ukrainians there is a major summer offensive coming after which we could be speaking about Crimea plus six regions so Ukraine needs to negotiate now and get a better deal than it would be towards the end of the year.
Noticeably absent are Russia's demand for denazification and demilitarization. The first is Russia's signal that it would not have any say in future Ukrainian government (Zelensky can stay in power). This is an olive branch to Zelensky, and the second allows Ukraine to have as much troops and equipment as it wants/can get, placing no restrictions on them (apart from WMD), which is an olive branch to Ukrainian right wing hardliners.
Overall, even if it looks harsh on the first glance, there is much to work with here, nobody should expect the terms after three years of war to be mild.
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Trump Sounds Upbeat on Ukraine Cease-Fire as Russia Unleashes Drone Barrage
Putin has delayed and slow-rolled talks as U.S. president pushes for a quick peace deal
—> https://www.wsj.com/world/trump-sou...b7?st=niXs7S&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink“… Putin’s handling of Trump in the first months of his presidency has turned into a study of just how far the Russian president can test the U.S. president’s patience as he frustrates Trump’s campaign promise of brokering a quick end to the war in Ukraine. While Trump has at times expressed annoyance at Putin, he so far has balked at deploying more economic sanctions against Russia.
Talks on Friday between Kyiv and Moscow representatives in Istanbul delivered little progress and showed that Putin is sticking to his maximalist demands in the war: achieving a weakened Ukraine dominated by Moscow. Russia rejected the demand by Kyiv and its allies to have a cease-fire in place before negotiating a long-term peace.
At the same time, the Trump administration can now say that Russia and Ukraine are at least engaging in negotiations. In his comments Sunday, Rubio said the talks “were not a complete waste of time” because they prompted an exchange of prisoners between Russia and Ukraine, and that proposals for a cease-fire could soon lead to broader negotiations.
…
Since his election, Trump’s interactions with the Kremlin have allowed him to claim incipient progress but no peace deal. After a phone call with Putin in February, the U.S. and Russia announced the opening of talks in Saudi Arabia led on the U.S. side by Trump’s close personal friend, Steve Witkoff, whom he appointed as special envoy. Talks have been inconclusive but provoked tensions with European allies and Ukraine, who worried that Trump was cutting a peace deal with the Kremlin without their input.
After another phone call in March, Trump announced that Putin agreed to a partial cease-fire against Ukraine’s energy infrastructure. But the cease-fire never stuck, and Moscow was resistant to any wider truce.
The Kremlin all the while has been appealing to Trump’s commercial instincts by touting the economic rewards of normalizing relations between the U.S. and Russia.
Witkoff has traveled to Russia and met four times with Putin, coming out of talks echoing the Kremlin’s talking points about the origins of the war in Ukraine. …”