"Severance" Thread ; "But I'm her, Mark. I'm her."

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Ok good episode with some moments for sure...
1. So Irving is gone...for good? Seems like it on the surface. Lumon was clearly going to try to kill him.
2. Dylan resigned? I thought the outie had to approve. But given his outie said he should just quit, maybe we assume it happened? Because he handed in his key card and didnt have it on the elevator.
3. Miss Huang is sent away.
4. Milchick gives the best TV line in recent history, perhaps. And then maybe has some internal conflict about Mark?
5. And the last scene with Cobel and the fire was creepy AF. There's something about Devon that is either sinister or naive. A bit way too obsessed with a sister in law.
6. Cobel says once Cold Harbor is done, Gemma is dead. Is she physically dead or do they just torture and kill that persona and only the Miss Casey is left?
7. Also - they flooded Mark's chip. I thought the intent there was to basically fry it, no? So how is he still able to switch to his innie??? And why isn't he reintegrated?
8. Did Jame come up from the testing floor???? Ewwwww dude is Elon Musk with his impregnation stuff
 
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gizmodo.com

Severance's New Episode Has Its Origins in The Twilight Zone

Apple TV+'s show borrows an episode title—'The After Hours'—and some Easter eggs from a 1960 episode of the classic series.
gizmodo.com gizmodo.com

Cobel: “She’s one of Jame’s. No one’s to know… Miss Marsha White, ninth floor.”​
​
Guard: “Specialties Department.”​
​
Cobel: “I’m looking for a gold thimble.”​

… Anyone who stopped by another dimension on the way to Kier will recognize the lines almost verbatim from The Twilight Zone‘s “After Hours.”
 
So now I wonder if Gemma goes into cold Harbor and remains Gemma in there

And that room basically sees if they can kill that part of her brain or personality and the rest stay alive?
 
aGDevil2k said:
I'm shocked more people aren't chatting on this episode
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I have thoughts but have had time to type them up — traveling to Phoenix tomorrow so should have some down time then to do some Severance navel-gazing. :)
 
I watched this Thursday night and was too overwhelmed to respond to it. I deliberately waited a couple of days to watch a second time, and I now think it's not only the best episode of the series, but one of the best I have ever seen from any series. It has elevated this show to the kind of writing we got with the best of things like Succession, and there is no higher level than that. When Milchick used words to verbally slap up and down Drummond (finally, finally!) the writing and artistry and acting of that scene was pure genius. I wanted to scream YES. I just knew that Milchick's earlier "Grow" was self-admonition to assert that he is a human being and not like a severed "animal." The when he is on the frightening phone call with Mark Scott, and the latter says "Work is just work, right?" Milchick, emotionally struck like a bell, then turns towards the photo he has chosen for his office wall of an iceberg. That motif meaning is always: there is far more below the surface. Milchick gets the courage to allow Mark Scott to proceed with whatever plan he is about. Cobel knows Milichick knows this is about what is up, and says "if he smells chicanery..." Well he does, a burning smell, and Milichick is not interfering now. He is not telling Drummond where to hunt him down.

All the scenes with Dylan (s) plural and his wife were agonizing, and both Dylans are aligned now against Lumon.

Helena only eats the whites of eggs, with surgical care, in the most antiseptic and bizarre meal since the ending of 2001.

Now our heads must explode with that scene where father finds Helly with the map memorization task. Where is that going?

Cold Harbor success with the file kills Gemma. What does that mean?

I wonder if pursuit of Irv is ahead in some way, even though Burt's act of humanity suggests Irv is free. Irv does not feel free when he leaves, so maybe he dangerously tries to get back to Burt. Irv could tell Helly was not Helly; can he tell that innie Burt was not really severed? I have no idea on that one.

The writing in the scene with Cobel, Mark Scott and his sister was also incredibly brilliant. Now we end with Mark S arriving (!!!) at the birthing center, and his last words in this new world was "She's alive!"
 
Healing said:
I had nearly the same thought while reading the post, and I wasn’t the target, ie “what’s your deal?”

Some folks like to get geeky with Absalom! Absalom!; some folks would rather read Candide. No yuck on either yum is necessary, and saying “that one didn’t grab me” isn’t cause for personal criticism.
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Just to clarify something, I have been discussing aesthetic values in art of all kinds (and discussing other stuff) since very roughly 1977, and that on message boards since about 1993 or so, to now, and have been told I "may be missing something" thousands of times. Very often to my benefit, correctly so told. This kind of thing is not a personal criticism, it opens thought doors, and is part of any worthwhile discussion. Further, the word "may" indicates a speculation. One that can be countered with "may not" aesthetic arguments as well. Further, such speculation does not matter. Personal criticism is of the form, your mother dresses you funny, not you may have missed something in a work of art, or may be wanting something else in a work of art. That is an automatic part of a useful and non-boring discussion, and not an ego assault.
 
an0maly said:
Just to clarify something, I have been discussing aesthetic values in art of all kinds (and discussing other stuff) since very roughly 1977, and that on message boards since about 1993 or so, to now, and have been told I "may be missing something" thousands of times. Very often to my benefit, correctly so told. This kind of thing is not a personal criticism, it opens thought doors, and is part of any worthwhile discussion. Further, the word "may" indicates a speculation. One that can be countered with "may not" aesthetic arguments as well. Further, such speculation does not matter. Personal criticism is of the form, your mother dresses you funny, not you may have missed something in a work of art, or may be wanting something else in a work of art. That is an automatic part of a useful and non-boring discussion, and not an ego assault.
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It's literally an opinion difference of entertainment preference
 
They’re not letting the brilliant John Turturro ride off into the sunset. He’s willing to risk it all for love. He’s coming back guns blazing.
 
Healing said:
Yeah, something has to reemerge in the Irving storyline. IMO, the character is second only to Milchick in the compelling rankings, and Turturro is running neck and neck with Tillman in my acting ranking. I felt Irv’s exit was far too milquetoast for a former vet with investigative skills, and an actor of Turturro’s stature. Feels like a feint. I anticipate Irv and Milchick have some unfinished business, though it may be in alliance.
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I don't know if I mentioned it here, but I have always been baffled as to why and how Irv's outie painted the grim black hallway to the testing floor last season, and it recently made me wonder if he is a past test/torture subject like Gemma. Early on (largely season 1) as an innnie he is a Kier zealot and extremely obedient--is that from repressed fear of their ability to torture? His detective, military mindset also implies he will not give up on his own goal or search, whatever it is for.

Really kind of agonizing we have only one more episode this season, and while in season 2 we have gotten so many huge answers posed by last season, we still have just as huge questions that we may or may not get resolved with this upcoming finale. I'm going to try to list both, ones at the forefront to me, and others can offer more if they like.

ANSWERS AND QUESTIONS
  1. We now know the nature of how Gemma is trapped and tortured, her own innie in various ways, and her outie, severed from those memories, and yet also trapped in a kind of experimental setting where she thinks it will be over in time and she will be released.
  2. What is her full background before teaching at college, and did Lumon in any way arrange for her to meet Mark Scott?
  3. We know Cobel is, we have to say, “of two minds” about Lumon—devout zealot about Kier, but against the modern Lumon for various big reasons, including giving her no credit for original conceptions of the severance procedure.
  4. What will Cobel actually do to help Mark Scott in his goal of freeing Gemma, and how does that fit with Cobel's own new goals of fighting back about the modern Lumon?
  5. As a child Cobel was taught and accepted that “all knowledge is Kier's” In the past she thus accepted no credit for her own innovations that led to the severance procedure. After being fired for spying on Mark Scott's outie life and getting caught, she now aparrently demands credit in some way.
  6. Does this mean Cobel wants to destroy Lumon, or in some way take it over entirely?
  7. Dr. Mauer (Robby Benson) is seen passing in the background in the flashback scene of Gemma at the fertility clinic, meaning Lumon had designs on using Gemma against Mark years in the past.
  8. Dr. Mauer is told point blank by Drummond that the completion of the Cold Harobr file means Gemma will die, and that is in Lumon's terms, the same point at which huamity's greatest achievement happens.
  9. Dr Mauer is also in some sick and twisted way in love with Gemma. Does his potential for somehow preventing her death play a part in what will happen?
  10. It seems apparent that Drumond, outie Burt, and the tall driver who looked threateningly at Cobel outside Lumon all were or are “enforcers” of various kinds. Perhaps The Board's version of Mafia hit men.
  11. Was Burt lying to Irv that he went this far, and if not (if only a driver), why did he and Fields talk of metaphysical redemption?
 
an0maly said:
I don't know if I mentioned it here, but I have always been baffled as to why and how Irv's outie painted the grim black hallway to the testing floor last season, and it recently made me wonder if he is a past test/torture subject like Gemma. Early on (largely season 1) as an innnie he is a Kier zealot and extremely obedient--is that from repressed fear of their ability to torture? His detective, military mindset also implies he will not give up on his own goal or search, whatever it is for.

Really kind of agonizing we have only one more episode this season, and while in season 2 we have gotten so many huge answers posed by last season, we still have just as huge questions that we may or may not get resolved with this upcoming finale. I'm going to try to list both, ones at the forefront to me, and others can offer more if they like.

ANSWERS AND QUESTIONS
  1. We now know the nature of how Gemma is trapped and tortured, her own innie in various ways, and her outie, severed from those memories, and yet also trapped in a kind of experimental setting where she thinks it will be over in time and she will be released.
  2. What is her full background before teaching at college, and did Lumon in any way arrange for her to meet Mark Scott?
  3. We know Cobel is, we have to say, “of two minds” about Lumon—devout zealot about Kier, but against the modern Lumon for various big reasons, including giving her no credit for original conceptions of the severance procedure.
  4. What will Cobel actually do to help Mark Scott in his goal of freeing Gemma, and how does that fit with Cobel's own new goals of fighting back about the modern Lumon?
  5. As a child Cobel was taught and accepted that “all knowledge is Kier's” In the past she thus accepted no credit for her own innovations that led to the severance procedure. After being fired for spying on Mark Scott's outie life and getting caught, she now aparrently demands credit in some way.
  6. Does this mean Cobel wants to destroy Lumon, or in some way take it over entirely?
  7. Dr. Mauer (Robby Benson) is seen passing in the background in the flashback scene of Gemma at the fertility clinic, meaning Lumon had designs on using Gemma against Mark years in the past.
  8. Dr. Mauer is told point blank by Drummond that the completion of the Cold Harobr file means Gemma will die, and that is in Lumon's terms, the same point at which huamity's greatest achievement happens.
  9. Dr Mauer is also in some sick and twisted way in love with Gemma. Does his potential for somehow preventing her death play a part in what will happen?
  10. It seems apparent that Drumond, outie Burt, and the tall driver who looked threateningly at Cobel outside Lumon all were or are “enforcers” of various kinds. Perhaps The Board's version of Mafia hit men.
  11. Was Burt lying to Irv that he went this far, and if not (if only a driver), why did he and Fields talk of metaphysical redemption?
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Burt's outie just drove the cars. Once they reached the execution point Burt would sever to his innie to kill whoever the victim was saving his outie the turmoil of being a murderer.
 
chawkheel said:
Mark S. you disappoint me.

Will Season 3 be Gemma trying to save Mark?
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FINALE SPOILER HYSTERICAL ALERT (obviously)

I think with Mark S turning away from Gemma, he has decided to for now, kill the outie--kill Mark Scott.

I struggled with choosing my weekly quote for the thread title, until I watched the finale twice. I've tended to choose some quote that rang like a bell from each episode, for being strange or memorable. After the first viewing I was thinking of, "Whatever this life is, it's all we have, and we don't want it to end." This was innie Mark's plea, his assertion of personhood, in the video cam exchange argument (one of the most bizarre, unique and incredible sequences I have ever seen).

On second viewing I think when Helly (???????) says the line, "i'm her," I read it as permission to Mark S. to free Gemma but to stay alive with Helena and Helly, I guess, inside Lumon. That scene was the most emotional impact I have felt in a series, just about ever. I could be far off base with that, but reading it otherwise at the moment breaks my brain, even more broken that it is with this episode. The other quote I considered, was "It's like both of us are one person combined."

I do think Irv returns on some sort of rescue, and who he spoke to in long past episodes on the pay phone, implies outside help; is it possible that he talked to Cobel, maybe?
 
Before that line Mark S says "But I want to live with you". So I simply took the "I'm her" response as Helly saying you can't live with me because I'm Helena Eagan.

I wonder how the Equator is going to show up in the future.

The marching band scene was awesome.

Glad we still have Dylan innie.

Happy we now have a complete Gemma in the real world to add to our characters.
 
Icky Mettle said:
Watching Mr. Milchick bust out his dance moves alone is worth the price of Apple TV+.
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Earlier in this thread somebody said they screamed out loud at season 1's finale. Last night I cried, and screamed, and laughed. But my big laugh was Dylan pushing the vending machine in front of the door. I screamed at Drummond's death, with joy, because I thought the usual action movie thing of the bad guy getting control over Mark would happen. Bang, nope.
 
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