So-called Anti-Woke, Anti-DEI policy catch-all

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ChileG said:
In the very recent past you have pointed to Musk’s ridiculous website as proof of how much money he was “saving” and I think you know understand that was folly.
You claimed liberals were doing all of this malicious compliance and we now see that was wrong.
I’m curious if you have any reason to claim Pete B was hired because he was gay.

Also, a gay guy and a black lady getting jobs is hardly proof that DEI is about quotas, for the record (which is what we were discussing).
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If I didn't include an "if this is true" disclaimer when referencing Musk's tweets, then I was definitely very much wrong.

As far as malicious compliance is concerned, I still believe it could go either way. I'm not a mind reader to know, with certainty, what is going on in the mines of those who are removing web content.

Given his lack of qualifications, which was pointed out by his former employer, I don't know how Buttigiege could be anything but a DEI higher due to his homosexuality. Clearly I am not in Biden's inner circle, nor can I read his mind, but it seems to be much more than a coincidence that he checked all of the DEI boxes. Black woman on scotus? Check. Trans person as the head of a department? Check. Homosexual person as the head of a department? Check.
 
Trump’s Transportation Secretary, on the other hand, is a reality TV star. The heads of these agencies never really tend to be subject matter experts, especially for DoT. These are political appointments. Buttigieg was more than qualified to lead the department as a figurehead, which is really what the role entails.
 
ZenMode said:
If I didn't include an "if this is true" disclaimer when referencing Musk's tweets, then I was definitely very much wrong.

As far as malicious compliance is concerned, I still believe it could go either way. I'm not a mind reader to know, with certainty, what is going on in the mines of those who are removing web content.

Given his lack of qualifications, which was pointed out by his former employer, I don't know how Buttigiege could be anything but a DEI higher due to his homosexuality. Clearly I am not in Biden's inner circle, nor can I read his mind, but it seems to be much more than a coincidence that he checked all of the DEI boxes. Black woman on scotus? Check. Trans person as the head of a department? Check. Homosexual person as the head of a department? Check.
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Great example of “begging the question.”
 
I mean, Pete Buttigieg is a Rhodes Scholar who studied at at Harvard and Oxford. He also has shown himself to be both charismatic and pretty knowledgeable about political matters. On top of that, he is able to explain policy to "ordinary people" in a way that is engaging and convincing. Claiming that he was unqualified and only got the job because of his sexual preference is kind of a hot take.
 
Paine said:
Trump’s Transportation Secretary, on the other hand, is a reality TV star. The heads of these agencies never really tend to be subject matter experts, especially for DoT. These are political appointments. Buttigieg was more than qualified to lead the department as a figurehead, which is really what the role entails.
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I have been assured that making a comparison to people who work in the Trump, rather than Biden, administration is a strawman fallacy.
 
ZenMode said:
It’s a strawman because I said nothing about Trump’s selections, nor do his selections change anything about Biden’s and DEI.

With Trump, his selections are clearly people who a) represent his beliefs and b) are people he believes he can count on to do his bidding. Agree or disagree with that approach, at least it makes sense. Picking an under-qualified Transportation dept. head because he’s a male who likes to have other males diddle his naughty parts is just ridiculous and more than a little weird.
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I thought Mayor Pete was about as qualified as just about any other Senate confirmed Secretary of transportation for the last 20 years. The job as it's currently defined is not to actually do things like make sure the money goes to the best projects or oversee things like the NTSB to make sure they are reducing accidents. He's got deputies for that.

The job is to provide politicians executive cabinet experience and to make sure the department never ends up on the front page of the New York times. Look back at all the Senate confirmed Secretaries of transportation. They're all attorneys or executives at nonprofits. Not one of them is a civil engineer or have a background in finance or planning. The acting heads, who are who has the job until the Senate bothers to confirm someone, have the real experience and are probably doing the real work. In other words, the mayor Pete pick wasn't some out of line dei pick. He's a good politician who did the job somewhere between adequately and well.
 
sringwal said:
Let me put it this way. Structures have been in place for centuries, in this country, to allow mediocre white men to have jobs that either they weren't qualified for, or lacked the experience to do. My maternal grandfather was a member of the Lion's Club in High Point. "Secret Societies" like the Lions Club are built as a way for mediocre (usually white) men with just a little bit of money to network and and rise up in (or remain at the top of) society. Fraternities have a similar end. For the slightly more wealthy, so did country clubs.

We all took social studies classes that football coach who came to work every day to teach football. A lot of those classes involved watching movies. It was an easy A.

By and large, these underqualified middle/upper class men clocked into work each day, and quite frankly didn't accomplish a lot. Certainly not by today's standards.

As long as it was straight white men who filled those positions, no one seemed to give a shit that they weren't really qualified to do them. But, suddenly, now that there is a belief that people who aren't straight white men are working in positions that they might not be qualified for, it's keeping certain portions of our society up at night, angry at the "injustice" of it all.

Why does our mediocrity get a pass?
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I absolutely believe in "It's not what you know, it's who you know", but that isn't unique to being white or being male.

I also agree that many of Trump's selections are under-qualified, but, as I mentioned earlier, he's selecting people based on the fact that their beliefs strongly align with his and will help him implement his agenda. At least that makes sense politically. Picking people based on meaningless characteristics doesn't make sense. Biden might as well have said "I'm going to pick a blonde and someone with freckles"
 
superrific said:
1. Again, do you think maybe you're not understanding what dei is all about? It's not a fucking quota system. It's not about giving minorities a leg up.
2. I wonder when you will realize that most of today's GOP uses DEI as a derogatory term for minorities in general, without discrimination. It's not exactly the n-word, but it's meant to be stigmatizing.
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I'd argue it is exactly like the n-word and used deliberately so.
 
ZenMode said:
I absolutely believe in "It's not what you know, it's who you know", but that isn't unique to being white or being male.

I also agree that many of Trump's selections are under-qualified, but, as I mentioned earlier, he's selecting people based on the fact that their beliefs strongly align with his and will help him implement his agenda. At least that makes sense politically. Picking people based on meaningless characteristics doesn't make sense. Biden might as well have said "I'm going to pick a blonde and someone with freckles"
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So do you not think Buttigieg aligned with Biden and helped him implement his agenda? It has to be because he’s gay?
 
I think what we have here is an interesting case of selective reasoning.

Every republican party nominee for president has been a straight white protestant male.

"Straight white male" has become the norm to the point that people have stopped questioning it is a category - the straight white male experience is, for some, synonymous with "what it means to be human."

A black Trump would never have won the nomination (hell, we saw this play out in the NC governor's race, where Robinson paced significantly behind Trump despite having similar personalities, work ethics, and political views). Nor would a hispanic Reagan.

On some level, Zen knows this. But he desperately needs to believe that he has earned his place in the world, in a way that others have not, and so he hides behind identity politics, which warps his view on DEI.
 
sringwal said:
I think what we have here is an interesting case of selective reasoning.

Every republican party nominee for president has been a straight white protestant male.

"Straight white male" has become the norm to the point that people have stopped questioning it is a category - the straight white male experience is, for some, synonymous with "what it means to be human."

A black Trump would never have won the nomination (hell, we saw this play out in the NC governor's race, where Robinson paced significantly behind Trump despite having similar personalities, work ethics, and political views). Nor would a hispanic Reagan.

On some level, Zen knows this. But he desperately needs to believe that he has earned his place in the world, in a way that others have not, and so he hides behind identity politics, which warps his view on DEI.
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Mark Robinson is nowhere near the politician that Trump is. Mark Robinson made one speech about guns at the Greensboro City council and made it all the way to a largely ceremonial office and then his career ended. He's not the first politician, black or white, to say Trump stuff to stay in the news and then have their political career hit the rocks.

Robinson didn't lose the governor's race because he was black and Trump didn't win the presidency because he's white. Robinson was an inexperienced politician who just didn't have it running against a popular incumbent. Trump is a charismatic politician who successfully connected with the electorate.
 
Paine said:
So do you not think Buttigieg aligned with Biden and helped him implement his agenda? It has to be because he’s gay?
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In that they are both Democrats, sure. Again, per Pete's former employer, he wan't even the most transportation knowledgeable blogger on the staff.

There would seem to be little doubt that there are much, much more qualified people out there and there also seems to be little doubt, given the clear initiative of the Biden administration to create diversity, that Pete's sexual orientation was a factor which, again, is as dumb and irrelevant, as picking based on hair color.
 
ZenMode said:
In that they are both Democrats, sure. Again, per Pete's former employer, he wan't even the most transportation knowledgeable blogger on the staff.

There would seem to be little doubt that there are much, much more qualified people out there and there also seems to be little doubt, given the clear initiative of the Biden administration to create diversity, that Pete's sexual orientation was a factor which, again, is as dumb and irrelevant, as picking based on hair color.
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We’ve already covered the part about qualifications for these cabinet level secretaries. You continue to equate Buttigieg simply being gay with him being hired for being gay despite presenting no evidence other than your own biases.
 
ZenMode said:
Given his lack of qualifications, which was pointed out by his former employer, I don't know how Buttigiege could be anything but a DEI higher due to his homosexuality. Clearly I am not in Biden's inner circle, nor can I read his mind, but it seems to be much more than a coincidence that he checked all of the DEI boxes. Black woman on scotus? Check. Trans person as the head of a department? Check. Homosexual person as the head of a department? Check.
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Buttigieg was hired because he was a prominent politician who had been a contender for the nomination. In all likelihood, he was promised a cabinet position when he dropped out of the race to clear the way for Biden.

The idea that he must have been hired because he's gay . . . oh, also he's an effective communicator and did good work on Fox News.

Look, you say over and over again, "DEI is bad because it makes people think that candidates were hired only because of their protected characteristics," but do you see anyone else doing that? YOU do that -- to such a degree that you're overlooking the neon-flashing obvious reasons why he was selected.
 
ZenMode said:
In that they are both Democrats, sure. Again, per Pete's former employer, he wan't even the most transportation knowledgeable blogger on the staff.

There would seem to be little doubt that there are much, much more qualified people out there and there also seems to be little doubt, given the clear initiative of the Biden administration to create diversity, that Pete's sexual orientation was a factor which, again, is as dumb and irrelevant, as picking based on hair color.
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“Per Pete’s former employer.”

Pete from time to time would write articles as a guest writer for Slate. One person wrote an article making and off-handed comment about other Slate contributors perhaps having more experience in transportation than Pete. (An article that concluded Pete could be a great Transportation Secretary).

That you keep using this one person’s opinion saying Pete wasn’t the most experienced and concluding that Pete was a “DEI hire” is quite a stretch.
 
Paine said:
We’ve already covered the part about qualifications for these cabinet level secretaries. You continue to equate Buttigieg simply being gay with him being hired for being gay despite presenting no evidence other than your own biases.
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You're right. It could just be an incredible coincidence that the Biden admin has the first black female SCOTUS justice in US history (on which he called his shot, setting the stage for the assertions I'm making now), the highest ranking, openly transgender government official in US history and the first openly gay Cabinet secretary in U.S. history.

I mean, he literally checked every typical DEI box there is to check.
 
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