Paine
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No, in the same way that no one could point to a “working model” of a capitalist state prior to the collapse of feudalism in medieval Europe. That’s not how history works.
So-called Anti-Woke, Anti-DEI policy catch-all
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UNCBAdookJD
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Hegseth also promised full transparency but then cut the livestream of the townhall as soon as Q&A began.Hegseth Uses His First Town Hall to Attack Diversity
The defense secretary, speaking to the Pentagon work force, defended his “unconventional approaches” to an audience that included women and people of color.
Hegseth Uses His First Town Hall to Attack Diversity
The defense secretary, speaking to the Pentagon work force, defended his “unconventional approaches” to an audience that included women and people of color.www.nytimes.com
“…
Speaking to a room filled with African Americans, Asian Americans, Latinos and white Americans, both men and women, he offered a full-throated attack on the military’s decades-long efforts to diversify.
“I think the single dumbest phrase in military history is ‘our diversity is our strength,’” said Mr. Hegseth, who served in the U.S. Army National Guard from 2001 to 2021 and is a former Fox News host.
He later added that he dismantled diversity, equity and inclusion policies at the Pentagon because they “served a purpose of dividing the force as opposed to uniting the force.”
… In recent years, the Pentagon has sought to increase the numbers of women and racial minorities in the military’s officer corps, so that it could become more representative of the enlisted force it leads. Mr. Hegseth has said such policies are unfair. …”
Giving birth is NOT a human universal event. Fifty percent of us can’t. Not all females give birth. Some want to and can’t. Some don’t want to and work to prevent pregnancy and still give birth. Some don’t want to and do. Many want to and do.
Is “hunger” a universal human event? Most Americans and Europeans don’t experience hunger; well, some say, “I’m STARVING,” and, they had breakfast and lunch and are waiting on supper.
Hunger is not missing lunch because you’re busy.
Many Somalis, Palestinians, Ukrainians, and others in impoverished and/or war-torn areas do experience true hunger.
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So, your stance is that the lack of a functioning society of this type is due to what? I'm honestly curious. Class and social divisions seem to me to be pretty endemic to most every member of the animal kingdom.
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Paine
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The human project is to rise above the state of animals. We have God-given ability to rationalize. Where does the rationality lead us? Towards the goal of human liberation.
Capitalism is the most dominant form of economic system ever created, that much is obvious. It became dominant because of its sheer ability to produce. The law of capital drives like a rhythm. The rationality of the system compels men to follow its laws. Capitalists aren’t evil; they’re driven by forces beyond their individual control.
The system is also reproduced via culture. This is Gramsci’s idea of cultural hegemony. Common sense is curated and crafted in a way that no one can question the status quo. Even those that do question are pained by their own internal conflicts that have been instilled via the culture of capitalism.
I imagine a better future.
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Paine
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The trope of idealism being associated with youth needs to die. Who decided that aging should naturally come along with greater cynicism? I’m not going to live my life that way.
I picked 12 because I had just seen a president assassinated, the reaction to the signing of the Civil Rights Act and Vietnam escalating. Yeah, my idealism and trust in society wore off pretty fucking fast
Paine
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And no offense, the cynicism of your generation has produced some pretty disastrous political consequences. I’m suggesting that even justified cynicism is counterproductive for anyone that claims to be of the left. Allowing cynicism to override and define has, historically, not been a good thing.
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Odds are exceptionally high that you will live your life that way no matter how you say or feel about it. You said above that capitalists are driven by forces beyond their control. I think idealism is largely in direct conflict with the reality that their are forces beyond our control. There are lots of forces beyond our control. Acceptance of that is not so much a loss of idealism as it is a realization of the realities of the human condition.
And while you believe that our ability to rationalize should separate us from all other members of Kingdom Animalia, I don't share that view at all. We are far from the only species to have rational thought. If anything, the drive for class, order, and division is heightened as a species becomes more sentient and rational. Humans are social animals. Social animals thrive on a class hierarchy. As much as we would like to think ourselves above that, we really haven't ever shown a penchant to do so or even move slightly in the direction of a classless existence.
Paine
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Acceptance of that doesn’t have to be a loss of idealism, but, for many people, it is.
A debate about our fundamentally different views of human nature is far afield of this thread. Happy to continue the conversation elsewhere.
Let me me add to this that the biggest thing that separates us from other animals, the ability to record and pass down knowledge allows us to do the same with pernicious myths.
rodoheel
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More theoretical than realistic though
ETA: I see you’ve discussed this with others. I’m not really trying to argue here but you would think the last 150 years have done a pretty good job of showing that a true classless society is not possible. Not to say that we can’t do better to lessen the differences between classes and shouldn’t try to do so.
Paine
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I don’t care to argue about it here or elsewhere, but it’s obvious that I disagree with your view of the last 150 years. “It hasn’t happened, therefore it isn’t possible” is not sound logic.
Individual examples have been argued everywhere, and I have nothing original to contribute to those arguments.
A father’s experience during a pregnancy isn’t even close to a mother’s experience.
Let’s not equate motherhood with fatherhood as universal human experiences.
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Nobody ever said that you dingbat.
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Ban on D.E.I. Language Sweeps Through the Sciences
President Trump’s executive order is altering scientific exploration across a broad swath of fields, even beyond government agencies, researchers say.
Ban on D.E.I. Language Sweeps Through the Sciences
President Trump’s executive order is altering scientific exploration across a broad swath of fields, even beyond government agencies, researchers say.
“…
According to a program director at the foundation, who asked not to be named for fear of retaliation, a software algorithm flagged grants that included words and phrases often associated with D.E.I., including “activism” and “equal opportunity.” Other words it searched for were more nebulous — “institutional,” “underappreciated” and “women” — or can mean something else in scientific research, like “bias” and “polarization.”
N.S.F. officials were instructed to manually review grants flagged by the algorithm. Some staff members, including the N.S.F. program director, made a point of removing the flag from most awards. “I’ll probably get in trouble for doing that,” she said. “But I’m not in the business of McCarthyism.”
… Several scientists expressed concern that organizations within the federal sphere seem to be overcomplying, prompting confusion and resentment.
“They’re obeying in advance, they’re going beyond what the executive order says,” said Christine Nattrass, a physicist at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, who conducts research at Brookhaven National Laboratory and emphasized that she was not speaking on behalf of her institutions.
…
That sense of compliance appeared to extend beyond federal institutions. Two decades ago, the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine, or NASEM, helped to highlight the issue of racial disparities in health care, with a landmark reportrecommending that minorities be better represented in health professions. More recently, NASEM participated in an ambitious effort to root out the use of race in clinical algorithms that guide medical treatment.
The quick retreat this week from a core mission stunned many NASEM employees. “D.E.I. has been at the center of what the institution has focused on for the last decade,” said one staff member, who asked not to be identified for fear of retribution. “It shows up in everything we do.”
The Academies are privately operated, but they receive a majority of their support from government contracts. Fifty-eight percent of their program expenditures came from federal government contracts last year, according to Dana Korsen, a spokesperson for the institute. …”
HeelYeah2012
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I would never vote for Paine for office but I actually do “like” him. I would rather get a beer with him than just about anyone on this board because he is thoughtful and respectful.
Duke Mu
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Embarrassingly racist.