Tariffs Catch-All

[superrific]

There's so much more to international trade than tit for tat tariff battles.

Tariffs to stop China from dumping super cheap solar panels and basically collapsing our solar panel industry is different than blanket tariffs on everyone.

1. Your second sentence is correct.
2. Your first sentence is also correct. I will expound just a little. I've said it before on the board but maybe not everyone saw it.

Tariff levels are set by worldwide negotiation. All the countries in the world got together for seven different multi-year marathon negotiating sessions and agreed to cut tariffs on each others' goods.

During those negotiations, the US did not push for developing world countries to lower their tariff levels. Why? Because we don't sell much to those countries. Why? Because they are poor!

3. I know this is hard for Americans sometimes to understand, but countries set trade policies based on their entire economic situation, not just their relationship with the US. And because of the principle of MFN status -- which Trump has just destroyed -- everyone has to get the best tariff rate. Meaning that if a country wants to tariff its small neighbor, the tariff will hit the US too. But the US doesn't really -- or shouldn't really -- care, because they are poor countries.

For instance, why did Bangladesh have a 100% tariff on textile products until very recently? It wasn't because it was scared of US companies coming in and undercutting the Bengali firms (indeed, most of the Bengali textile producers have contracts with American companies). It's because they are worried about Vietnam undercutting their firms, or one of the stans, etc. Or India. The point is, those tariffs exist for reasons that have nothing to do with the US. And again, the US doesn't really care because making textiles is a low-paying job in a low-margin industry.

 

[superrific]

Here's another way of looking at it that might appeal to MAGAs.

The US economy used to produce textiles. We don't anymore. That's because we graduated from textiles! We moved up in the world. Let the low-paying, low-margin production go to other countries while we focus on high-value, high-productivity products to make us rich.

It's like when a rich investment banker takes his car to the mechanic to get the oil changed. The banker could do it -- but it's not worth the time. In the time it takes the banker to change the oil, s/he could make $10K. So instead s/he pays someone else $100 and smokes cigars.

And in this example, the US is the rich investment banker. Even the MAGAs! Bangladesh is like the mechanic changing our oil.

By the way, that rich banker runs a huge trade deficit with the mechanic. It's very one-sided. The banker transmits to the mechanic a few hundred dollars per year, and the mechanic transmits nothing in return. By Trump logic, the mechanic is ripping the banker off.

 

[BillOfRights]

Debate was a disaster for America.

Jill Biden is the villain here IMO. She knew he wasn't up for the job.

donald trump, elmo musk, and fox news are the villains here. trump voters are accomplices. Ordinary Germans in the 1930s.

 

[superrific]

How did we get a fucking mention of Jill Biden in this thread? Is the brain-worm contagious now?

 

[UNCatTech]

Silence’s rebuttal: nu-unh

Better than the average MAGA who would respond with " what does that mean?"

 

[UNCatTech]

I was half asleep this morning and saw the Dow futures down only 200 points. I thought to myself, well the markets don't seem to be reacting too much to the Trump tariffs...

Then I looked again saw the Dow futures are down over 1,200 points

NASDAQ down 720 points and the S&P down 200 points.

Today may become known as Bloody Thursday

Is this the boom trump was talking about?

 

[superrific]

Better than the average MAGA who would respond with " what does that mean?"

You hang out with different MAGAs than I do.

The MAGAs I know would never ask a question like that. They don't care about the answer and they think the question makes them weak and/or uninformed (which they are, but that's a different story).

 

[Zoo_View]

For reference

Those Gerald Ford “Whip Inflation Now” buttons made a huge difference in beating down inflation in the ‘70’s.

 

[UNCatTech]

The current course is America getting ripped off for decades and buying foreign made goods

If getting ripped off, which is a fucking lie, lead to the best economy in the world I'm all for staying the course.

We'll be great when these other countries all work together and simply stop buying US products all together.

 

[BlueSmoke]

Remember when we were told to stop with the Trump Derangement Syndrome? Well, he actually did do derangement.

 

[Healing]

How did we get a fucking mention of Jill Biden in this thread? Is the brain-worm contagious now?

Folks are desperate for the etiology of the chaos and their fear.

 

[UNCatTech]

Terrible analogy

What's terrible is your lack of understanding.

Trade isn't a zero sum game. Very few things are binary. Binary thinking is what leads to these failures.

 

[UNCatTech]

My friends have friends who's last name is Aycock. They named their Son Holden.

I knew parents who added PhD to the end of their child's legal name.

Luckily the kids was brilliant and lived up to it.

 

[superrific]

Looks like UK will bend over and take it.

That's not what I read today. I think they were unprepared for being hit with tariffs. They are studying the issue.

 

[Zoo_View]

We're going to become Cuba - driving 70 year old vehicles

Except Cuba will have cooler looking old cars.

 

[Zoo_View]

I know I am repeating myself, but before we judge St. Donald of Mar-a-Lago too harshly, let's find out what kind of Kompromat Vlad "the Ras" Putin has on him. Once we know that, then we can judge for ourselves whether we would have acted more heroically than St. Donald has. Given St. Donald's known eccentricities, I'm thinking what Vlad has is pretty disgusting. On the other hand, St. Donald knew this day was coming. The pain would have been less back when he was just a failed businessman who had not only squandered a fortune that his father had left him but also squandered what he was able to steal from his siblings and/or their heirs.

Putin could simply have photos of Trump in a hotel room wearing just boxers (or tightie whities) - showing just how fat Trump is.

 

[bassydude77]

Debate was a disaster for America.

Jill Biden is the villain here IMO. She knew he wasn't up for the job.

I keep coming back to this, not that it matters....It wasn't just Jill. If the post op articles are to be believed, everyone in the White House knew and anyone close to Joe knew. How could they not get together way earlier in the process and talk Joe out of it? Did they really think he could waddle through and win? I was voting for Joe even in a "Weekend at Bernie's" scenario, but clearly someone had multiple opportunities and time to convince him to be a one term Pres....

Anyway, back to current events.

 

[bassydude77]

“[It is] quite an extraordinary calculation after months of work behind the scenes,” said Jim Reid, the global head of macro research at Deutsche Bank. “[It] didn’t add much confidence on there being an in-depth strategic implementation plan.”

My god, if I hear someone this smart, say something this dumb again, my head might explode....there wasn't, never will be and never could be a plan with this Administration. Much less an "in-depth strategic implentation plan." There is no way anyone in the finance world could think any of this would be well thought out....

 

[farce©]

Trump’s ‘idiotic’ and flawed tariff calculations stun economists

‘Willing sycophants’ came up with simplistic formula that has thrown global economy into disarray

www.theguardian.com

Trump is obsessed trade deficits. CNBC showed a series video clips of Trump complaining about trade deficits back into the 1980's. This has been an issue for him for 40 years. So when they said, “The boss hates trade deficits and his team of willing sycophants came up with a formula, however idiotic, that ticked the box.” they are just pandering to his long-standing obsession.

But they neglect the simple fact that the US is 28% of global GDP but only 4.5% of the global population. You can't consume that much shit without outsourcing a lot of it to low cost sources. And these countries are too poor to buy products the US makes. We buy diamonds from Lesotho, no amount tariffs is going to make those poor miners buy US products. And now we learn Trump's whole tariff formula is based on trade deficits, which is just asking the wrong question.

My favorite post on this thread was from @TangledUpInBlue06 when they said "You start to understand how this idiot could bankrupt a casino."

 

[ChileG]

Trump is obsessed trade deficits. CNBC showed a series video clips of Trump complaining about trade deficits back into the 1980's. This has been an issue for him for 40 years. So when they said, “The boss hates trade deficits and his team of willing sycophants came up with a formula, however idiotic, that ticked the box.” they are just pandering to his long-standing obsession.

But they neglect the simple fact that the US is 28% of global GDP but only 4.5% of the global population. You can't consume that much shit without outsourcing a lot of it to low cost sources. And these countries are too poor to buy products the US makes. We buy diamonds from Lesotho, no amount tariffs is going to make those poor miners buy US products. And now we learn Trump's whole tariff formula is based on trade deficits, which is just asking the wrong question.

My favorite post on this thread was from @TangledUpInBlue06 when they said "You start to understand how this idiot could bankrupt a casino."

Yes. Trump is coming from a position that trade deficits are inherently bad.