The Charlie Kirk Thread

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Trans terror groups? Yeah, that's not a thing. And if anyone knows about hate speech it's MAGA. Apparently, Kirk's hate speech wasn't hateful enough for scum like Robinson and the crazy internet group he was obsessed with, and that's why he killed Kirk. They are all rooted in racism, bigotry, lies and hate.
 
Glad Charlie has merged into only one thread, and as somebody said zero threads might be better. It’s time for the Charlie stuff to fadeaway into the abyss of the 24 hour news cycle.
This may not be true, but I had heard that he was on a flight with Jeffrey Epstein to “the island” and it was there the two of them concocted the tariffs idea and floated it by Trump, who was also there. While there, they stumbled across Hunter’s laptop and therein found all of Hillary’s emails.
Kirk was getting a lot of shit from Trump Loyalists (like Laura Loomer) before his murder because he was demanding Bondi quit obfuscating on Epstein and release the full files to clear the air and satisfy a key promise made to MAGA.

Under direct pressure froM Trump, he publicly said he would t talk about it anymore at one point but then clarified he was just giving them time to do the right thing. Kirk promoted the conspiracy theory (with a lot of left wing adherents) that Epstein worked for Mossad, which led to fever swamp suggestions that he had been killed by an Israeli assassin in the hours before his alleged killer was captured.

So for all his flaws, I don’t think there is an Epstein-Kirk connection (if nothing else, Kirk was too young to really have been involved unless he had been groomed to work at Epstein’s ranch at some point).
 
I think there's a couple different things being conflated here, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't.

First, I generally agree (and have said many times) that Dems and leftists need to avoid hyperventilating, doom-crying predictions about what Trump will do in the future (like "he's going to put gays in cages!" or "he's going to try to stay in office forever," etc.). It worked against Dems in 2016 when they made all sorts of horrible predictions about what a Trump presidency would mean, and while Trump 1.0 was an objectively awful president, whose policies or lack thereof did real harm to a lot of people, the sky didn't fall and the country didn't descend into chaos and pigs didn't start flying. So when the same predictions got recycled in 2024 it fell flat with a lot of people. It made what was objectively a bad presidency seem not so bad because the predictions were so much worse.

Second, it is generally unhelpful and counterproductive for Dems to paint with a broad brush with pejorative terms applied to Trump's supporters (racist, fascist, "deplorables," etc) because nobody ever sees themselves as those things and using that sort of language just pushes people away.

But I simply can't agree that we should never apply labels like "authoritarian" or "fascist" to Trump (and the members of his administration and media mouthpieces), because it is important to put his actions and words into their proper political and historical context for people who might not understand that context. It is important, for example, to say and explain why stuff like these statements by Trump or his influential minions is overtly fascist rhetoric:

"In honor of our great veterans on Veterans Day, we pledge to you that we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical-left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country—that lie and steal and cheat on elections, and will do anything possible; they'll do anything, whether legally or illegally, to destroy America, and to destroy the American Dream"

"It's time for the Trump administration to shut down, defund, and prosecute every single leftist organization."

""The Democrat Party must be classified as a domestic terror organization and their members and leaders treated accordingly."

Calling the press "the enemy of the people"

Saying that the "Democrat Party . . . supports everything that God hates."

"[Immigrants] are poisoning the blood of our country."

"There is [a leftist] ideology that has steadily been growing in this country, which hates everything that is good, righteous and beautiful and celebrates everything that is warped, twisted and depraved. . . . It is an ideology that leads, always, inevitably and willfully, to violence. The fate of millions depends on the defeat of this wicked ideology.”

"The power of law enforcement, under President Trump’s leadership, will be used to find you, will be used to take away your money, take away your power, and, if you’ve broken the law, to take away your freedom."


Calling out rhetoric like this as overtly fascist rhetoric is important to help illustrate to people how far outside the modern American political discourse statements like this are. To not call out this rhetoric as extreme is too allow it to be normalized. Similarly, to not call out the Trump admin for its overtly authoritarian tendencies (many of which were explicitly outlined in Project 2025, which Trump laughably denied any knowledge of) - such as the the shameful example I gave of its lies, deception, and utter disregard for the law in immigrant deportations; the EO on birthright citizenship; the desire to suppress and punish critical speech; the willingness to leverage the executive power of the President to compel and coerce universities and businesses to do what the President wants them to do; etc) is to give the impression that they are all within the realm of ordinary political policy disagreements, rather than fundamental attacks on the legitimacy and power of the rule of law and the other branches of the federal government.

So while I agree that sometimes the use of pejorative labels can be problematic - especially when applied to followers rather than leaders of a political movement - I simply can't agree that when Trump walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, we shouldn't call him a duck.
Right. I think when done appropriately, authoritarian or fascist, as descriptors of wording, are accurate. Those accurate comments don't exist in a vacuum and when you have the Dem presidential nominee (Kamala) calling Trump fascist, you have similar and worse coming from Liberal talking heads on CNN/NBC and similar from Liberal print media and it all sounds very similar to the far-left social media users...I think THAT is where the trouble starts, along with assassinations and assassination attempts among other things.

When
 
Right. I think when done appropriately, authoritarian or fascist, as descriptors of wording, are accurate. Those accurate comments don't exist in a vacuum and when you have the Dem presidential nominee (Kamala) calling Trump fascist, you have similar and worse coming from Liberal talking heads on CNN/NBC and similar from Liberal print media and it all sounds very similar to the far-left social media users...I think THAT is where the trouble starts, along with assassinations and assassination attempts among other things.
This seems to suggest that there is some connection between what Kamala Harris and the talking heads on CNN say, and the assassination attempts on Trump and Kirk. As far as I know there is absolutely zero evidence to connect those things.
 
This seems to suggest that there is some connection between what Kamala Harris and the talking heads on CNN say, and the assassination attempts on Trump and Kirk. As far as I know there is absolutely zero evidence to connect those things.
I think all of the rhetoric and hyperbole (government, media, social media) all sounds very similar and, as a whole, contributes to the violence.

That has been my entire point about the Left/Dems.
 
I think all of the rhetoric and hyperbole (government, media, social media) all sounds very similar and, as a whole, contributes to the violence.

That has been my entire point about the Left/Dems.
What is that belief based on? The people who shot Trump and Kirk were likely not watching CNN or listening to Kamala speak.
 
Something similar was probably posted, but WTF??

JD Vance Instructs Americans to Tell on Bosses of People ‘Celebrating’ Murder of Charlie Kirk: ‘Call Their Employer’

You're not seriously surprised by this, are you? This has been the right's MO for years now. Thy started doing this basically the second Kirk was shot. This is "LibsofTikTok" writ large.
 
What is that belief based on? The people who shot Trump and Kirk were likely not watching CNN or listening to Kamala speak.
You're taking my posts literally.

I'm saying that the "whole" of rhetoric/hyperbole is increasing the political temperature and is causing a lot of problems, including assassinations and assassination attempts. I'm not blaming anyone person, outlet, etc for the assassination attempt.
 
Something similar was probably posted, but WTF??

JD Vance Instructs Americans to Tell on Bosses of People ‘Celebrating’ Murder of Charlie Kirk: ‘Call Their Employer’

Remember when JD Vance was lecturing Europe about backsliding on protecting Free Speech?

Good times.
 
Glad Charlie has merged into only one thread, and as somebody said zero threads might be better. It’s time for the Charlie stuff to fadeaway into the abyss of the 24 hour news cycle.
This may not be true, but I had heard that he was on a flight with Jeffrey Epstein to “the island” and it was there the two of them concocted the tariffs idea and floated it by Trump, who was also there. While there, they stumbled across Hunter’s laptop and therein found all of Hillary’s emails.
We are not driving the news cycle. We are just following it. It is important to follow this because the consequences of this story could still impact all of us.
 
I have no issue with employers firing employees if something they say or do in public, including social media, reflects badly on the business.

I have a big problem with the federal government, especially the fucking Vice President of the United States, encouraging tattling and punishment for protected speech.
 
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On the Bulwark, Tim Miller really went off on “illiberal” liberals celebrating Kirk’s death. He was emotional — angry.

I don’t feel like I’m seeing very much of that. But he’s maybe in touch with way more activist types than I am. He’s obviously connected; I’m not. I’ve definitely heard and seen some things I’m not thoroughly comfortable with, but I just don’t know of widespread celebration of the tragedy.

Anyway, Miller was pretty riled up.
I won't say I've seen a lot of social media posts straight up celebrating Kirk's death, but I have seen a good number of "He was a horrible person and he deserved what he got" posts from simply random people on FB/X/wherever.

There is certainly a rising tide of (calls for) political violence on the left, largely in line with rising populism on the left, and both in response to the fact that right-wing violence, calls for violence, and general dumbfuckery has been met with general acceptance rather than refutation. IMHO, it is not surprising that there are those on the left, seeing that Republicans have paid no price for their widespread advocacy for and using the levers of government to commit political violence, have decided that "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".
 
I see A LOT of libs celebrating Kirk's death on my social media feeds - not just purple haired barista's - educators, administrators, nurses, Drs., a Secret Service agent, police officers and business owners. It's pretty widespread unfortunately.

No question the social media algorithms are giving us what we want to see but I see a danger in getting people too fired up. The problem is that many people are giving them content to send out.
 
I have no issue with employers firing employees if something they say or do in public, including social media, reflects badly on the business or the business.

I have a big problem with the federal government, especially the fucking Vice President of the United States, encouraging tattling and punishment for protected speech.
Well the President himself is doing it too, and has been basically since Kirk was killed Days ago Trump directly posted calling for the firing of a Clemson professor for a social media post (and the professor was then subsequently fired).
 
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