The Charlie Kirk Thread

theel4life said:
The Right is making Charlie Kirk into a martyr. On my way to work this morning I saw 3 different businesses with their flags at half mast. Since I have been at work I have had 2 people tell me to my face you guys did this and you picked the wrong man to kill. This is getting scary.
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Look at it this way, if those businesses are flying their flags at half mast for Charlie Kirk, it makes it really easy to know where you don't want to spend your hard-earned money.
 
What on earth is the right wing going to do if it turns out that the shooter was motivated not by leftist ideology but rather by an even more extreme far right ideology than the one Kirk espoused? Obviously, either way, it’s horrific and abhorrent. I just mean that the entire right wing media ecosystem has already gone all in on declaring war on the entire liberal apparatus in this country, what is going to happen if it turns out that the shooter doesn’t have the ideological motivations that they’ve already decided he has without him even having been caught yet?
 
CFordUNC said:
What on earth is the right wing going to do if it turns out that the shooter was motivated not by leftist ideology but rather by an even more extreme far right ideology than the one Kirk espoused?
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uhh nothing. The same thing they always do, double down on their bullshit gaslighting and hate filled rhetoric. There is zero capacity for self reflection in that space
 
nycfan said:
Trump literally called him a martyr during his remarks yesterday…

Trump calls conservative activist Charlie Kirk a ‘martyr for truth and freedom’​


thehill.com

Trump calls conservative activist Charlie Kirk a ‘martyr for truth and freedom’

President Trump on Wednesday night said that he was “filled with grief and anger” at the fatal shooting of conservative activist Charlie Kirk at a Utah college campus, and called K…
thehill.com

“President Trump on Wednesday night … called Kirk a “martyr for truth and freedom.” …”
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I guess he joins Ashli Babbitt and Baby Jesus in the MAGA martyr Hall of Fame.
 
Ramrouser said:
Kirk wasn't a right wing provocateur; instead, he was famous for showing up on campuses with a smile and politely engaging with liberals in a friendly manner.
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There we go. Sure, he was saying that trans people have no right to exist, that they are mentally ill people who are the cause of America's gun violence, but he was saying it with a smile! It was polite!

Kirk's entire existence was grotesque. There is no "polite engagement" when you are saying or implying that your interlocutors are subhuman. He was a vicious horrible man, smile or no smile. Watch Django Unchained. You might notice how polite and cheery Calvin Candy was. Who would have any beef with him?
 
sringwal said:
Sometimes, it is best to look elsewhere for a view on ourselves.

www.bbc.com

Charlie Kirk killing lays bare America's bloody and broken politics

Charlie Kirk's killing is another episode of gun violence in America and the latest in a line of recent political violence.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

Moments before the crack of a gunshot changed everything, thousands of students had gathered under clear blue skies at an idyllic Utah college to hear from a man considered a rock star in conservative campus politics.

As the 31-year-old Charlie Kirk sat under a tent, debating political opponents taking their turn at a microphone, many gathered on the lawns cheered – and some protested. Seconds later, they were all running in terror.

The activist was struck in the neck by a bullet, mortally wounded. The episode playing out as cameras rolled, some showing the murder in bloody detail.

The images will be hard to forget - particularly for the many young conservatives for whom Kirk held celebrity status. The leader of their movement, regardless of the ultimate motive behind his killing, will now be viewed as a martyr for the cause.

Kirk, in the past, had warned of what he said was the threat of violence from his critics – of which he had many, given his provocative style of conservativism. Nonetheless he was willing to travel to college campuses, where the politics frequently tilt to the left, and debate all comers.

He was an advocate of gun rights and conservative values, an outspoken critic of transgender rights, and a staunch, unapologetic Donald Trump supporter. His Turning Point US organisation played a key role in the voter turnout drive that saw the president return to the White House this year.

The tent where he was shot had "prove me wrong" emblazoned on it. He was a hero to young conservative students in particular, meeting them where they were and offering them a movement of their own.

Kirk's killing is both another episode of shocking gun violence in America – and the latest in an ever-lengthening line of recent political violence.

Earlier this year two Democratic state legislators in Minnesota were shot in their homes – with one dying from her wounds. Last year, Donald Trump was twice the target of assassination attempts. His brush with a bullet at an outdoor rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, bears striking similarities to Wednesday's shooting in Utah – both playing out before gathered crowds at outdoor venues.

Two years before that, a hammer-wielding assailant broke in to the home of then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a prominent Democrat. In 2017, a man opened fire on Republican congressmen practising on a northern Virginia baseball field.

It is difficult to divine where American politics goes from here, but the trajectory is bleak.

Violence begets violence. Increasingly divisive rhetoric, fuelled by social media echo chambers and easy access to firearms, leads to raw nerves and a heightened potential for bloodshed.

Conservative activists are reconsidering what security measures are necessary for public appearances, just as many local politicians did after the Minnesota shootings. But the Butler attempt on Trump's life was nearly successful, despite trained local and federal security forces on the scene.

If there is a sense that no-one is safe – that public life itself has become a blood sport – that will have its own corrosive effect on American politics.

Trump, in a video address from the Oval Office posted on his Truth Social website on Wednesday night, called the killing a "dark moment for America".

But he wasted little time in blaming the "radical left" for Kirk's murder. He ticked through some of the recent instances of political violence - those that targeted conservatives - and said his administration would find "each and every one of those who contributed to this atrocity and to other political violence".

Those comments are sure to be welcomed by those on the right who in the hours after the shooting called for a crackdown on left-wing groups.

"It is time, within the confines of the law, to infiltrate, disrupt, arrest and incarcerate all of those who are responsible for this chaos," conservative activist Christopher Rufo wrote on X.

Many prominent Republicans and Democrats, including potential 2028 presidential contenders, lined up to condemn political violence and call for a cooling of rhetoric.

But in Congress on Wednesday evening, a moment of silence for Kirk was quickly followed by a shouting match between lawmakers - a further indication that partisan tensions are still high.

Meanwhile, in Utah, witnesses, law enforcement and state and local leaders continue to come to grips with the trauma of the day.

In emotional remarks during a press conference, Governor Spencer Cox – who has frequently spoken out against overheated political rhetoric and political divisiveness – described a nation, soon to celebrate a milestone anniversary of its founding, that is "broken".

"Is this it?" he asked. "Is this what 250 years has wrought upon us?"

"I pray that is not the case," he answered.

The doubt in his voice underscored the simple truth that, on this day, the future of America and whether its violent politics can be fixed seems far from certain.
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This reminds me that it was only a few days ago that Trump shared a disgusting AI-generated video of Nancy Pelosi manipulated to have her complain about the strain of her husband visiting his lover/her would-be assassin in jail. That hammer-wielding maniac fully intended to assassinate Pelosi and Neely killed her husband, but that has been disgusting fodder for right wing humor, including by the POTUS and his son, since it happened.

None of which justifies the attack on Kirk or the random folks out there celebrating it. But it is an example of a very serious assassination attempt being politically nullified with ghoulish precision and apparent glee by many of the same people shouting about martyrdom for Kirk and war now.
 
CFordUNC said:
What on earth is the right wing going to do if it turns out that the shooter was motivated not by leftist ideology but rather by an even more extreme far right ideology than the one Kirk espoused? Obviously, either way, it’s horrific and abhorrent. I just mean that the entire right wing media ecosystem has already gone all in on declaring war on the entire liberal apparatus in this country, what is going to happen if it turns out that the shooter doesn’t have the ideological motivations that they’ve already decided he has without him even having been caught yet?
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The same thing they always do... lie.
 
SnoopRob said:
I repeatedly and consistently hung out inside Boshamer Stadium for all 4 years of my time in Chapel Hill when it was supposed to be closed.
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I routinely would use a paint can opener to pull open exit doors from the bottom that had no outdoor handles (usually theaters on campus that I was working in productions on at odd hours). Once climbed the corner of Swain Hall to a balcony so I could get in a window to open the building for a larger crowd when the outdoors were locked when they shouldn't be. When there is a will, there is usually a simple way.
 
Ramrouser said:
For many young folks on the Right, 9/10 will be their 9/11.

I think many of you here (understandably since Kirk wasn't in your social media feed) grossly underestimate the power, influence and reach of Charlie Kirk. He mobilized the youth on college campuses and on social media and I would argue, played a huge role in Trump winning the under 30 vote (particularly among young men). Kirk wasn't a right wing provocateur; instead, he was famous for showing up on campuses with a smile and politely engaging with liberals in a friendly manner. Kirk also played a role in the return of young men to church which has been quantified. There was/is no one equivalent on the Left.

Kirk will be hard/impossible to replace.
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I don't think anyone here underestimates Kirk's power, influence, and reach. He was obviously one of the leading MAGA figures, and was very close with several members of the Trump organization. He would not have risen to where he got without being intelligent and charismatic.

But I have to roll my eyes at this line: "Kirk wasn't a right wing provocateur; instead, he was famous for showing up on campuses with a smile and politely engaging with liberals in a friendly manner." Kirk's fame and career were built on antagonizing "angry liberals" so that he could create clips of them that triggered conservatives over how "crazy" and "extreme" liberals are. He was one of the earliest adopters and best employers of the modern, algorithm-friendly "ragebaiting" culture. He was much more intelligent and urbane than, say, Chaya Raichik, who employs a much cruder and more vicious version of the formula, and a much more serious political operative as a result, but his entire career and schtick were built on dividing people, not bringing them together. And of course, he devoted most of his time and energy over the last 8-9 years to supporting Donald Trump's authoritarian movement, while fully endorsing the worst of Trump's falsehoods, like CO-19 conspiracy theories, the 2020 election "Big Lie" and the J6 assault on the Capitol.

So, while his death is tragic, the reality is that Kirk had a major role in creating the current superheated political culture and rhetoric that many on the right are now blaming for his death. He should not have been killed, and his death will definitely be a negative thing for the country, but the reality is that he rose to fame, fortune, and power through making us all a little angrier at each other.
 
Man alive, who knew!? All you have to do is show up with a smile and be polite when you’re telling people that gay people should not exist, that women should not be allowed to vote, that husbands should dominate wives, and that innocent kindergartners getting turned into target practice every other week in our country is a reasonable price to pay for having the second amendment!
 
ZenMode said:
In either of your examples, wouldn't he still fit the definition of a martyr? In other words, let's say that it was a Nick Fuentes supporter who killed him because he didn't hate Jews enough. That would still be a martyr, right?
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I think you could debate whether that would really make him a martyr, but the larger point is that the two examples I gave are not the only two options. My point was more about it not being clear, even if he is a martyr, what exactly he is a martyr for.
 
CFordUNC said:
Man alive, who knew!? All you have to do is show up with a smile and be polite when you’re telling people that gay people should not exist, that women should not be allowed to vote, that husbands should dominate wives, and that innocent kindergartners getting turned into target practice every other week in our country is a reasonable price to pay for having the second amendment!
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One may smile and smile, and be a villain.
 
superrific said:
I grow weary of the hand-wringing on the left. Everyone who claims to be nauseated about Kirk's death -- are you serious? He's a dead terrorist. He was one of the people most responsible for GOP's embrace of hate politics. For him to be killed by hate politics -- if that's what happened -- just means he lived to see the fruit of his labors. It's true that political violence is terrible. But Kirk was an advocate for political violence. He was a net negative for society. He was a man of limited ability who managed to climb to preposterous heights simply by peddling hate, fear, and violence with little sophistication, giving it to his fans raw and unadulterated.

Stop saying, I hate it that he was killed. He was killed by his own hand. I don't care.
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You have every right to your own feelings on the subject but so do those of us who genuinely hate that he was killed.
 
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