The Charlie Kirk Thread

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ChapelHillSooner said:
That said, I am not going to outright dismiss the possibility, not with Patel in charge.
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This is the consequence of the Trump justice department generally, and Patel specifically, repeatedly undercutting their own credibility by displaying their partisanship and lying in court and to the public. It is perfectly reasonable to now treat all of their statements with a heightened level of suspicion.
 
Calheel said:
What evidence do they have?

If you believe the text is fake what other evidence do you believe is unquestionably real?
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I don't think they are looking to frame this kid. I think they are looking to project a narrative because they jumped on the trans angle and now they are trying to substantiate that. You know well how MAGA world operates -- someone at the top (usually Trump but not always) says something stupid and obviously false, and they spend the next week trying to pretend that the nonsense is true. How many Republicans said that the eating the pets story was false?

So I see no reason to think they faked any of the physical evidence.

It's also possible -- perhaps likely -- that the shooter and the roommate did text in an incriminating way. That's possible even if these purported texts aren't real.

You said earlier that you wouldn't take an even money bet. At this point, neither would I. But what odds would you need? 10:1? 100:1? If I was a betting man, which I am not, I think I would strongly consider taking a 10:1 bet and probably would.
 
ZenMode said:
Given that he has never voted, or even registered to vote, it doesn't sound like he was very political, but not being political isn't the same as saying his beliefs don't align with Liberals/Democrats.
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once again, you have absolutely no evidence that his beliefs align with liberals/democrats or more importantly that any of those beliefs were the genesis of him committing this outrageous crime.
 
Calheel said:
The defense already has an argument that the defendant was framed for political reasons. If the prosecution intentionally lies in a charging document, it could bias the jury pool (even if the document never makes it into evidence) and it could also lead to consequences from the trial judge that impact the case.

Keep in mind that St George, Utah is a very small place and every potential juror is likely following this case with great attention.
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they are political day traders
 
4thgenheel said:
once again, you have absolutely no evidence that his beliefs align with liberals/democrats or more importantly that any of those beliefs were the genesis of him committing this outrageous crime.
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The evidence, IMO, is that he's actively pro-LGBTQ, generally a liberal view, and literally murdering anti-LGBTQ conservatives.
 
Calheel said:
The defense already has an argument that the defendant was framed for political reasons. If the prosecution intentionally lies in a charging document, it could bias the jury pool (even if the document never makes it into evidence) and it could also lead to consequences from the trial judge that impact the case.

Keep in mind that St George, Utah is a very small place and every potential juror is likely following this case with great attention.
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I don’t think the defense has that argument, and I don’t think they’re going to raise a defense. I predict he pleads guilty and gets a life sentence. Now if the prosecution seeks the death penalty and refuses to take it off the table, that’s a different story. His lawyers will have to come up with some defense.
 
Calheel said:
What evidence do they have?

If you believe the text is fake what other evidence do you believe is unquestionably real?
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I believe he confessed to his parents that he committed the murder, the gun that was used in the offense belonged to either him or his family, and there were photographs of him in the vicinity of where the shooting took place. That’s all pretty strong evidence when taken together.
 
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ZenMode said:
The evidence, IMO, is that he's actively pro-LGBTQ, generally a liberal view, and literally murdering anti-LGBTQ conservatives.
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what is the evidence that he's "actively pro-LGBTQ?"

plenty of people who are members of the lgbtq community are not liberal. it's obviously a bit insane but a lot of them exist.
 
Icky Mettle said:
I believe he confessed to his parents that he committed the murder, the gun that was used in the offense either belonged to him or his family, and there were photographs of him in the vicinity of where the shooting took place. That’s all pretty strong evidence when taken together.
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There’s also Robinson’s confession in his Discord chat group. Plus, Robinson turned himself in to law enforcement.

Andrew Weismann agreed with you that everything for the defense will be in attempt to avoid the death penalty
 
Icky Mettle said:
I believe he confessed to his parents that he committed the murder, the gun that was used in the offense belonged to either him or his family, and there were photographs of him in the vicinity of where the shooting took place. That’s all pretty strong evidence when taken together.
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I think Calheel's point is that we don't know that; it's also in the charging document so if one part is faked all could be.

But the photographs/video weren't faked. And the physical evidence -- if it's as described -- is strong.
 
Icky Mettle said:
I don’t think the defense has that argument, and I don’t think they’re going to raise a defense. I predict he pleads guilty and gets a life sentence. Now if the prosecution seeks the death penalty and refuses to take it off the table, that’s a different story. His lawyers will have to come up with some defense.
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The latter. The prosecution is basically under a presidential order to push for the death penalty. They will not likely accept a plea. And that is one of the reasons I don’t believe they would knowingly allege a false text in the charging document.
 
ZenMode said:
Mostly the fact that he's in a homosexual relationship with a trans woman.
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You’d be surprised how many republicans are, or are in similar LGBTQ-adjacent relationships, and hate themselves and their partners for it. Self-loathing is not a new thing.

The fact that you don’t get that should surprise me, but it doesn’t. Critical thinking clearly doesn’t grow on trees in your zen garden.
 
duluoz said:
You’d be surprised how many republicans are, or are in similar LGBTQ-adjacent relationships, and hate themselves and their partners for it. Self-loathing is not a new thing.

The fact that you don’t get that should surprise me, but it doesn’t. Critical thinking clearly doesn’t grow on trees in your zen garden.
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Sure, I know that situation does exist. Anything is possible.

He seems to hate those who hate LGBTQ, not necessarily hate himself, hence killing Kirk and not himself and/or his partner.
 
superrific said:
I think Calheel's point is that we don't know that; it's also in the charging document so if one part is faked all could be.

But the photographs/video weren't faked. And the physical evidence -- if it's as described -- is strong.
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The “if it’s as described” is doing a lot of work there.

Again, if someone thinks the prosecutors would intentionally fabricate a text conversation in the charging document, I don’t know how you could have confidence in ANY alleged evidence. I mean even the video and still shots could have been altered.
 
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