Trump Admin dismantling Dept. of Education — mass firings underway

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Dismantling DOE is going to burden the poorer states who have to rely on federal funding to keep up their public school standards. The gap in educational quality between states with inadequate tax bases and those better able to self-fund will widen. Of course, that only matters if you actually care about education.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:

The Federal Budget in 2019: An Infographic | Congressional Budget Office

The federal deficit in 2019 was $984 billion, equal to 4.6 percent of gross domestic product. Learn more about the deficit with a new interactive version of the infographic.
www.cbo.gov www.cbo.gov
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The CBO doesn't include supplemental spending. The actual 2019 federal expenditures, including supplemental spending, was $5.47 trillion.

When discussing federal spending, it is very important that you compare apples to apples. If you compare apples to oranges, as you were doing, you come up with your 38% increase in spending.

Again, if you look at the graph in the treasury link I posted, you can see the exact increase in total federal expenditures by year.
 
mynameisbond said:
Dismantling DOE is going to burden the poorer states who have to rely on federal funding to keep up their public school standards. The gap in educational quality between states with inadequate tax bases and those better able to self-fund will widen. Of course, that only matters if you actually care about education.
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Of course it is all totally Unclear But orangeturd hints at block grant type stuff to the States for "education"-as in maybe not eliminating the funding but not being as direct about how they must spend it
So I guess Texas could spend it on HS football stadiums and NC could spend it on Charter Schools-for example
 
Come on. There's a mathematical formula for determining how much more or less X is than Y. The whole exercise is simply one of definition, which means it's well suited to being governed by formula. Follow the formula and you know you're comparing apples to apples. Depart from the formula in favor of discretion leads to confusion.
 
oops - why am i so bad at math! my bad @HintonJamesHeel

i was too quick to pull the trigger on you after all the posts earlier today in the ukraine thread about 20 billion being a significant portion of a trillion.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
How is it bait? I didn’t realize we have had such an increase. What is it onk

high. North Carolina spends $12k a student. $15k per student is insane.
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The $12k includes the federal contribution. Any why do you believe that to be insane? That includes physical spaces, transportation, special education services, food programs, instructional staff, support staff, athletic activities, other social activities.
 
mynameisbond said:
Dismantling DOE is going to burden the poorer states who have to rely on federal funding to keep up their public school standards. The gap in educational quality between states with inadequate tax bases and those better able to self-fund will widen. Of course, that only matters if you actually care about education.
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During the 2021-22 school year, public schools in Louisiana received 19.5% of funding from the federal government.​

Share of public school district revenue coming from federal sources

In all, public schools in Louisiana received $2.3 billion, or $3,297 in federal funds per student. That’s 30% higher than the national average of $2,233 per student.

usafacts.org

What percentage of public school funding in Louisiana comes from the federal government? | USAFacts

About 19.5% or one in every five dollars of public school funding, during the 2021–22 school year. As with most schools nationwide, Louisiana received more funding from local or state governments than it did from federal sources. The totals differ by district, depending on factors such as...
usafacts.org usafacts.org
 
Calheel said:
For sure.

80 is 20% less than 100. That is correct.

I have never heard anyone say that 100 is 20% more than 80. That is just weird.
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I phrased it clunkily. My point was that you can show a change between two numbers as a different percentage. Both sides could be numerically correct.
 
wmheel1287 said:
The $12k includes the federal contribution. Any why do you believe that to be insane? That includes physical spaces, transportation, special education services, food programs, instructional staff, support staff, athletic activities, other social activities.
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Does it also include health care for teachers and staff? Retirement benefits?
 
Zoo_View said:
Does it also include health care for teachers and staff? Retirement benefits?
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Yes...and it includes the local supplements. It's an average accomplished by taking every penny spent toward education across the entire state and dividing by the number of students serviced.

What it ignores is that if you removed the very large local spending done by counties like Wake, most counties would plummet to 8k or 9k per student. Furthermore, a HUGE chunk of that is spent on special needs children and their education. Many of those are at $100k or more per child because they have so many staff attending them.
 
Patb78 said:
A big problem with what is going on is Musk and his minions don’t know jack shit about how our government functions. These cuts have been proposed in a time frame where there is no way they could have learned about the departments they are talking about gutting. They are assuming there is massive fraud in the spending of federal funds. Attacking SS by claiming large numbers of dead people are still receiving benefits (something that is impossible) and calling it a Ponzi scheme should set off alarm bells for everyone. The cuts they are proposing for Medicaid will have disastrous effects on the millions of poor people who rely on it for healthcare. By far most people in nursing homes are there because Medicaid pays for them to be there. Drastically reducing the federal part of Medicaid funding will mean a lot of people will lose nursing home care. This will undoubtedly lead to the closure of many nursing homes. Medicare will only pay for a 90 day stay in a nursing home and that is with a qualifying event (stroke, fall, etc) where the patient receives therapy. After the 90 days is up and the patient still needs further time in the facility they have to pay their own way or, if they qualify, they can move to Medicaid which provides open ended care. If what they are planning comes to fruition, then a lot of poor people are going to suffer. Hell, probably a lot of us will so they can give tax cuts to the wealthy.
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Regarding the Social Security fraud, he did talk about that in a Joe Rogan interview. Rogan asked him directly if dead people were receiving Social Security benefits and Musk said he didn't think so. He said where the fraud is occurring is that other Federal departments use the Social Security database to determine if someone is alive or not. Since just about everybody has Social Security, I'm sure that was an expedient way to determine that. So the fraud occurs when a different department or agency looks at the social security database and says yes, this person is still alive, and should be getting whatever benefit.

Musk also pointed out that it may be fraud or it may be waste or a bit of both. Say a large nursing home business is getting a check for a deceased resident. They haven't requested that payment but they also haven't confirmed that the resident is alive or gone out of their way to tell the government they shouldn't be getting the check. Is that fraud or waste or a bit of both?
 
wmheel1287 said:
Yes...and it includes the local supplements. It's an average accomplished by taking every penny spent toward education across the entire state and dividing by the number of students serviced.

What it ignores is that if you removed the very large local spending done by counties like Wake, most counties would plummet to 8k or 9k per student. Furthermore, a HUGE chunk of that is spent on special needs children and their education. Many of those are at $100k or more per child because they have so many staff attending them.
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Great point
The State spends shit The State pays teachers shit. All their pitiful "but not 50th, so we are okay " standings/rankings only exist because of local tax supplements Chapel Hill Carrboro is over 50% Not state for example in their total spending
I don't know how the "leandro counties" make it
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Regarding the Social Security fraud, he did talk about that in a Joe Rogan interview. Rogan asked him directly if dead people were receiving Social Security benefits and Musk said he didn't think so. He said where the fraud is occurring is that other Federal departments use the Social Security database to determine if someone is alive or not. Since just about everybody has Social Security, I'm sure that was an expedient way to determine that. So the fraud occurs when a different department or agency looks at the social security database and says yes, this person is still alive, and should be getting whatever benefit.

Musk also pointed out that it may be fraud or it may be waste or a bit of both. Say a large nursing home business is getting a check for a deceased resident. They haven't requested that payment but they also haven't confirmed that the resident is alive or gone out of their way to tell the government they shouldn't be getting the check. Is that fraud or waste or a bit of both?
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This is such incredibly stupid bad faith that it makes me nearly speechless.

If only there were some platform that Elon had access to that would allow him to explain his behavior ... Or why he thinks cutting jobs and contracts from these regulatory agencies is a better means to address downstream fraud ... Or had literally any evidence for any fucking thing he's claimed about waste and fraud ...

That the man has unprecedented and likely unlawful access to literally every scrap of government data and is still using hypotheticals to justify his actions should tell anyone with even two synapses to spark that he's full of shit.
 
StrangePackage said:
This is such incredibly stupid bad faith that it makes me nearly speechless.

If only there were some platform that Elon had access to that would allow him to explain his behavior ... Or why he thinks cutting jobs and contracts from these regulatory agencies is a better means to address downstream fraud ... Or had literally any evidence for any fucking thing he's claimed about waste and fraud ...

That the man has unprecedented and likely unlawful access to literally every scrap of government data and is still using hypotheticals to justify his actions should tell anyone with even two synapses to spark that he's full of shit.
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I'm not exactly sure what you mean by bad faith but I'll try to interpret. I honestly think that going on an interview style program where the interviewer can ask questions to challenge Musk is a bit more helpful to understand his actions and more difficult for Musk than just tweeting.

And I really don't think Musk is speaking in hypotheticals as much as he's generalizing the scope of some of the problems. He's also put up his wall of receipts of real cuts he's making for people to examine and criticize. This is in contrast to someone like Trump who just says there's fraud and waste and we're going to get rid of it.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by bad faith but I'll try to interpret. I honestly think that going on an interview style program where the interviewer can ask questions to challenge Musk is a bit more helpful to understand his actions and more difficult for Musk than just tweeting.

And I really don't think Musk is speaking in hypotheticals as much as he's generalizing the scope of some of the problems. He's also put up his wall of receipts of real cuts he's making for people to examine and criticize. This is in contrast to someone like Trump who just says there's fraud and waste and we're going to get rid of it.
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What's it worth when most of what he puts up are lies and misrepresentations? Musk's lies end up looking worse because they are overt.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by bad faith but I'll try to interpret. I honestly think that going on an interview style program where the interviewer can ask questions to challenge Musk is a bit more helpful to understand his actions and more difficult for Musk than just tweeting.

And I really don't think Musk is speaking in hypotheticals as much as he's generalizing the scope of some of the problems. He's also put up his wall of receipts of real cuts he's making for people to examine and criticize. This is in contrast to someone like Trump who just says there's fraud and waste and we're going to get rid of it.
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Have you tried to use the wall of receipts? Because I have. It is a sham as disclosure — limited data that is not searchable, nor can be organized by state or any other metric. It is not much more than tweets with links to popup boxes with limited details — just claims without actual receipts (like a link to the actual contract). …
 
finesse said:
What's it worth when most of what he puts up are lies and misrepresentations? Musk's lies end up looking worse because they are overt.
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Most? I'm sure Musk has put up a few that were lies and misrepresentations have been pointed out here but hasn't he put up thousands of programs at this point?

And that kind of proves the point that he's not just spouting hypotheticals. He doesn't have to put that stuff up. That's certainly not the norm in government. I'm sure he's putting it up to get support for his programs but the downside is that people can find and fixate on the ones that he's wrong about.

I really think when folks step away from the partisan lens, this is good for the American taxpayer. Government has gotten too bloated and no one really had the political will to fix it before. Next I hope a Democrat gets in there and starts slashing some bloated GOP favored programs. Looking at you, USDA.
 
North Carolina ranked 48th in the country in terms of public education funding for the third year in a row, according to the latest annual state-by-state analysis of school funding from the Education Law Center.

The state also ranked 49th in terms of funding effort, which looked at school funding as a percentage of state GDP.
 
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