Trump Catch-All | Trump won’t rule out military action to take Panama Canal or Greenland; changing name of Gulf of Mexico to Gulf of America

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finesse said:
Polls show that a large number are the most poorly informed and educated. A large segment of the rest are deluded by religion. Many of the rest are the hucksters that prey on those groups. They're there for the same reason Willy Sutton robbed banks. "That's where the money is." It's less that we think they are rubes and more that they are uncomfortable with reality. Apparently they're the majority of the voters currently. Imo, and I doubt many will disagree, I don't want to appeal to the unthinking. I'd rather educate them than con them. After all, it looks like education is the Republicans' worst enemy.
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Your attitude more or less exemplifies the portion of the Democratic Party that is the reason that Trump won.
 
finesse said:
No. He won because voters were terribly misinformed. Part of it was MSM and a lot was orchestrated lies by the rightwing press.
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Do you think it's a coincidence that Biden, a center left traditional Democrat, kicked Trump's ass while Hillary and Kamala lost?
 
finesse said:
No. The Republican played the misogyny card well especially with minority males.
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For the sake of the Democratic Party, you should hope that a significant portion of the party does not maintain your view.

Your party just lost to Archie Bunker and they're seems to be no self-awareness as to why that happened.
 
ZenMode said:
For the sake of the Democratic Party, you should hope that a significant portion of the party does not maintain your view.
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What? That I think education is the best defense to the Republican Party and that retrenching to allow prejudice to flourish again is stupid. Fuck it. If people hate that idea, there's already a party for them.

If the Dems disagree, I'm not the one losing their way. They can go on without me.
 
StrangePackage said:
Is this where you try to convince us that Hillary was not a traditional centrist Democrat? Or that Kamala didn't tack hard to the right in her campaign?
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I don't think Hillary's loss is much different than Kamala's loss. I think Hillary lost because the Democratic Party had aligned itself much too closely with the woke / cancel culture/censorship contingency and she did nothing to disavow it. I think Kamala was largely a victim of the same thing. Voters were pushing back against identity politics and trans activism and she did nothing to disavow either of those two things.
 
ZenMode said:
I don't think Hillary's loss is much different than Kamala's loss. I think Hillary lost because the Democratic Party had aligned itself much too closely with the woke / cancel culture/censorship contingency and she did nothing to disavow it. I think Kamala was largely a victim of the same thing. Voters were pushing back against identity politics and trans activism and she did nothing to disavow either of those two things.
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I have very little regard for what you think, and posts like this are precisely why.
 
ZenMode said:
There is definitely a cult following among some Trump supporters. You can usually spot them with their ridiculous flags and hats. However, I think a significant portion of the Democratic Party, and I'm stealing a term from silence of the lambs, wants to paint anyone who voted for Trump as a rube.

That is a major mistake, IMO, and
that perception will probably keep hurting Democrats politicians.
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While I would agree that not everyone who voted for Trump is dumb or poorly-educated, it is also true, in an objective sense, to state the simple fact that Trump's base does tend to consist of those without college degrees. A college degree doesn't equate to intelligence, god knows, but as I said in another post a big part of the Trump phenomenon is a deep resentment and grievance towards the college-educated professional classes (especially upper-middle-class white professionals) by mostly working-class, non-college educated, and often rural or exurban whites.

And if by "rube" you mean someone who is easily conned and gullible and who has fallen for Trump the con man, then I would also certainly argue that is largely true, whether you're talking about college-educated, non-college educated, or minority voters who voted for Trump. And for proof just look at all of the interviews with Trump supporters since 2016 - the man they consistently describe voting for simply doesn't exist in reality; he's a figment mostly of their imaginations.

As for this hurting Democratic politicians, I'm not sure what they can do to win over most of these people anymore. I'm sure that you and others will say that Democrats need to "stop looking down" on Trump supporters, but the problem with that is that no matter what Democrats do Fox News and Newsmax and OAN and right-wing talk radio will continue keeping them in a state of resentment no matter what. I do agree that Democrats need to focus on winning back minority voters, but I'm not sure what can be done to win back the vast majority of Trumpers. They simply love the guy and do follow him blindly, because they're in a cult, plain and simple.
 
finesse said:
Polls show that a large number are the most poorly informed and educated. A large segment of the rest are deluded by religion. Many of the rest are the hucksters that prey on those groups. They're there for the same reason Willy Sutton robbed banks. "That's where the money is." It's less that we think they are rubes and more that they are uncomfortable with reality. Apparently they're the majority of the voters currently. Imo, and I doubt many will disagree, I don't want to appeal to the unthinking. I'd rather educate them than con them. After all, it looks like education is the Republicans' worst enemy.
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Yet…15 years ago these were Dem voters.
 
Ramrouser said:
Never Trumper Bill Kristol is calling the ABC settlement with Trump as an “inflection point” in our politics. Major Media paying damages to a President elect for defamation of one of its main news anchors is a Big Deal. The amount of damages is irrelevant.
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Do you know why it is an inflection point?

It's an inflection point because now we have media and business entities lining up to write huge checks to our political leaders to avoid their wrath. That you think it is a celebratory moment is entirely troubling.
 
Ramrouser said:
Never Trumper Bill Kristol is calling the ABC settlement with Trump as an “inflection point” in our politics. Major Media paying damages to a President elect for defamation of one of its main news anchors is a Big Deal. The amount of damages is irrelevant.
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So a few posts above you drew attention to the amount of the settlement as "significant," implying the amount was damaging, but now it's irrelevant? All righty...have it your way, counselor :LOL:

And Stephanopoulos' show, This Week, routinely competes with Meet The Press for the top slot in the Sunday show ratings (a quick google search will confirm this if you like). No way is ABC getting rid of him for that. Only way he loses his show is if your orange god-king pressures ABC to do it through corrupt/loyalist government officials after he takes office, which is a far more likely possibility.

And you've mischaracterized Kristol's quotation. Here is his tweet:



The "inflection point" doesn't refer to ABC paying Trump because of what George "Slopadopalous" (as Trump calls him) said, but because they gave up without a fight, essentially bending the knee in advance to a would-be autocrat or what will likely be an imperial presidency. Note his use of the word "Orbanization."

I can't help but feel that this is a bad-faith argument....color me shocked.
 
ZenMode said:
For the sake of the Democratic Party, you should hope that a significant portion of the party does not maintain your view.

Your party just lost to Archie Bunker and they're seems to be no self-awareness as to why that happened.
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Please do not compare Trump to Archie Bunker. Archie was misguided and often wrong but ALWAYS had a good heart. Trump isn't anywhere close to an Archie Bunker.

If you want a television comparison for Trump, I suggest more along the lines of Joffrey Baratheon.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
While I would agree that not everyone who voted for Trump is dumb or poorly-educated, it is also true, in an objective sense, to state the simple fact that Trump's base does tend to consist of those without college degrees. A college degree doesn't equate to intelligence, god knows, but as I said in another post a big part of the Trump phenomenon is a deep resentment and grievance towards the college-educated professional classes (especially upper-middle-class white professionals) by mostly working-class, non-college educated, and often rural or exurban whites.

And if by "rube" you mean someone who is easily conned and gullible and who has fallen for Trump the con man, then I would also certainly argue that is largely true, whether you're talking about college-educated, non-college educated, or minority voters who voted for Trump. And for proof just look at all of the interviews with Trump supporters since 2016 - the man they consistently describe voting for simply doesn't exist in reality; he's a figment mostly of their imaginations.

As for this hurting Democratic politicians, I'm not sure what they can do to win over most of these people anymore. I'm sure that you and others will say that Democrats need to "stop looking down" on Trump supporters, but the problem with that is that no matter what Democrats do Fox News and Newsmax and OAN and right-wing talk radio will continue keeping them in a state of resentment no matter what. I do agree that Democrats need to focus on winning back minority voters, but I'm not sure what can be done to win back the vast majority of Trumpers. They simply love the guy and do follow him blindly, because they're in a cult, plain and simple.
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I don't think it's a surprise to say that there is a decent number of voters who, regardless of the candidate, are going to vote because there is an R or a D next to their name. That is their only criteria.

I truly believe there are a large number of people, religious or not, who will move back and forth between parties depending on who the presidential candidate is. Like I said, Biden got the most votes of any candidate in the history of the country. There was nothing exceptional about him that would justify that. People came out in huge numbers to vote against Trump, I believe, because Trump is a piece of shit and Biden was a center left, traditional Democrat who had really no ties to the woke / cancel culture/identity politics/trans activist arm of the Democratic Party. Trump pounded on Kamala for her view on taxpayer funded sex change operations for illegal immigrants who were incarcerated. She did quite literally nothing to separate herself from those past views. Those views are ludicrous. To imagine that that's how taxpayer money should be spent is just insanity and I think voters responded.

Of course there was more to than that, but if Democrats keep taking the approach that 75 million people in the country are just uneducated, hyper religious fools... They are in for a rude awakening at the polls.
 
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