Trump fascism stage 3: voting.

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nycfan said:


Building toward ICE poll-watchers
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I am actually starting to think there is a real risk here. Between the use of NG and various federal law enforcement agencies to police cities and harass/detain/kidnap people of color (including legal residents and even citizens), and the DOGE theft and compilation of wide ranging personal information on almost everyone it wouldn’t be hard to target an area for an intimidation campaign - I’m sorry, an “election integrity” campaign - that could greatly suppress votes in neighborhoods that are Dem strongholds. Imagine armed men in masks reviewing data on a tablet as people file onto their precinct.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
I am actually starting to think there is a real risk here. Between the use of NG and various federal law enforcement agencies to police cities and harass/detain/kidnap people of color (including legal residents and even citizens), and the DOGE theft and compilation of wide ranging personal information on almost everyone it wouldn’t be hard to target an area for an intimidation campaign - I’m sorry, an “election integrity” campaign - that could greatly suppress votes in neighborhoods that are Dem strongholds. Imagine armed men in masks reviewing data on a tablet as people file onto their precinct.
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Completely agree. Everything Miller is doing now regarding the deployment of troops in American cities is geared toward November 2026. Large American cities will be fully militarized by then, which is the ONLY way Republicans will be able to retain power (by suppressing the urban vote).

This is not new. It's Orban. It's Duterte. It's Putin. And, yes, it's Hitler. This is a LONG playbook for a fascist takeover of a nation. And our resident Republicans are playing right into their hands.

WAKE THE FUCK UP PEOPLE!!!!
 
lawtig02 said:
Completely agree. Everything Miller is doing now regarding the deployment of troops in American cities is geared toward November 2026. Large American cities will be fully militarized by then, which is the ONLY way Republicans will be able to retain power (by suppressing the urban vote).

This is not new. It's Orban. It's Duterte. It's Putin. And, yes, it's Hitler. This is a LONG playbook for a fascist takeover of a nation. And our resident Republicans are playing right into their hands.

WAKE THE FUCK UP PEOPLE!!!!
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While I agree with you about the seriousness of the Trump admin attempts to shape elections and in particular about there being no depths to Stephen Miller's depravity, I don't agree with you about the prospect of large American cities being "fully militarized." I don't think most people grasp what sorts of troop deployments and logistics would be necessary to accomplish that. The couple thousand Marines + national guardsmen in Los Angeles, deployed for just a few weeks at an estimated cost in excess of $100 million, could barely cover, like, a four-square-block area of downtown LA, in a city that spans something like 450 square miles. The vast majority of people who live in LA never even saw a soldier while they were there. Now imagine what it would take for deployments to "fully militarize" LA and Chicago and NYC and Houston and Dallas and Atlanta and DC Charlotte and Detroit and Philly and [insert whichever other cities you want here] all at the same time, for a sustained period of time.

I do expect the Trump admin to do what it can to suppress turnout in liberal areas (just like conservatives have been doing in various ways for the last decade or more). And if the Trump admin are able to obtain control over any states' election processes, I also fear efforts to manipulate the count and/or arbitrarily exclude ballots from Dem voters. But I think warning of "fully militarized" American cities is simply not realistic. American cities are too sprawling and too numerous to even think about doing something like that, even leaving aside that I really doubt such an expansive military presence would be tolerated by anyone but the most ardent MAGA supporters.
 
rodoheel said:
While I agree with you about the seriousness of the Trump admin attempts to shape elections and in particular about there being no depths to Stephen Miller's depravity, I don't agree with you about the prospect of large American cities being "fully militarized." I don't think most people grasp what sorts of troop deployments and logistics would be necessary to accomplish that. The couple thousand Marines + national guardsmen in Los Angeles, deployed for just a few weeks at an estimated cost in excess of $100 million, could barely cover, like, a four-square-block area of downtown LA, in a city that spans something like 450 square miles. The vast majority of people who live in LA never even saw a soldier while they were there. Now imagine what it would take for deployments to "fully militarize" LA and Chicago and NYC and Houston and Dallas and Atlanta and DC Charlotte and Detroit and Philly and [insert whichever other cities you want here] all at the same time, for a sustained period of time.

I do expect the Trump admin to do what it can to suppress turnout in liberal areas (just like conservatives have been doing in various ways for the last decade or more). And if the Trump admin are able to obtain control over any states' election processes, I also fear efforts to manipulate the count and/or arbitrarily exclude ballots from Dem voters. But I think warning of "fully militarized" American cities is simply not realistic. American cities are too sprawling and too numerous to even think about doing something like that, even leaving aside that I really doubt such an expansive military presence would be tolerated by anyone but the most ardent MAGA supporters.
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Ok. I'd agree we're in late 1937. We're not yet in early 1939.
 
lawtig02 said:
Ok. I'd agree we're in late 1937. We're not yet in early 1939.
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You and I have had this discussion before, but the comparison to the Nazis in the 1930s still doesn't stick for me. Trump and his admin are using the language of the Nazis and the propaganda strategies of the Nazis; they are undoubtedly doing many things to move us towards a fascist government. But there is simply no comparison between what they're doing now - as bad as it is - and what the Nazis did through the mid-late 1930s. The Reichstag Fire decree was in February 1933. The Enabling Act, passed through coercion and acts of violence, was in March 1933. Within months after that the Nazis had effectively disbanded, if not outright murdered, or thrown into concentration camps, their political opposition, and in fact outlawed political opposition. The Night of the Long Knives was in 1934. Jews were effectively stripped of their rights (and their property) by 1935. In 1936 Nazi troops were marching into the Rhineland in contravention of the Treaty of Versailles.

Nothing like any of those things has remotely happened in the US yet. So no, we're not in 1937. If you wanted to be remotely accurate about the comparison, the most aggressive thing you could say is that we would be somewhere in, like, the early 1930s, with formal seizure of power and suspension of civil rights just around the corner. But candidly I still think that's not right and that there are many reasons to believe that a true Nazi-style takeover could not work in the current US, even if that's what the Trump admin were attempting to do.
 
rodoheel said:
While I agree with you about the seriousness of the Trump admin attempts to shape elections and in particular about there being no depths to Stephen Miller's depravity, I don't agree with you about the prospect of large American cities being "fully militarized." I don't think most people grasp what sorts of troop deployments and logistics would be necessary to accomplish that. The couple thousand Marines + national guardsmen in Los Angeles, deployed for just a few weeks at an estimated cost in excess of $100 million, could barely cover, like, a four-square-block area of downtown LA, in a city that spans something like 450 square miles. The vast majority of people who live in LA never even saw a soldier while they were there. Now imagine what it would take for deployments to "fully militarize" LA and Chicago and NYC and Houston and Dallas and Atlanta and DC Charlotte and Detroit and Philly and [insert whichever other cities you want here] all at the same time, for a sustained period of time.

I do expect the Trump admin to do what it can to suppress turnout in liberal areas (just like conservatives have been doing in various ways for the last decade or more). And if the Trump admin are able to obtain control over any states' election processes, I also fear efforts to manipulate the count and/or arbitrarily exclude ballots from Dem voters. But I think warning of "fully militarized" American cities is simply not realistic. American cities are too sprawling and too numerous to even think about doing something like that, even leaving aside that I really doubt such an expansive military presence would be tolerated by anyone but the most ardent MAGA supporters.
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Fully militarized is hyperbole.
Any organized uniformed presence in urban voting precincts will have a chilling effect on people of color who distrust police and members of ethnic groups being terrorized by ICE. Combine that with requiring voter IDs and eliminating mail-in ballots and you have a recipe for suppressing low-income and minority voters.
 
rodoheel said:
You and I have had this discussion before, but the comparison to the Nazis in the 1930s still doesn't stick for me. Trump and his admin are using the language of the Nazis and the propaganda strategies of the Nazis; they are undoubtedly doing many things to move us towards a fascist government. But there is simply no comparison between what they're doing now - as bad as it is - and what the Nazis did through the mid-late 1930s. The Reichstag Fire decree was in February 1933. The Enabling Act, passed through coercion and acts of violence, was in March 1933. Within months after that the Nazis had effectively disbanded, if not outright murdered, or thrown into concentration camps, their political opposition, and in fact outlawed political opposition. The Night of the Long Knives was in 1934. Jews were effectively stripped of their rights (and their property) by 1935. In 1936 Nazi troops were marching into the Rhineland in contravention of the Treaty of Versailles.

Nothing like any of those things has remotely happened in the US yet. So no, we're not in 1937. If you wanted to be remotely accurate about the comparison, the most aggressive thing you could say is that we would be somewhere in, like, the early 1930s, with formal seizure of power and suspension of civil rights just around the corner. But candidly I still think that's not right and that there are many reasons to believe that a true Nazi-style takeover could not work in the current US, even if that's what the Trump admin were attempting to do.
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I’m reminded of the quote from the leader of Project 2025, that we’re in the midst of a “second American Revolution” which will be “bloodless, if the left allows it to be.”

I don’t share your optimism. I think it’s very possible (if not probable) that Trump will indeed mount a military takeover. Hegseth is all in, IMO.
 
EyeballKid said:
I’m reminded of the quote from the leader of Project 2025, that we’re in the midst of a “second American Revolution” which will be “bloodless, if the left allows it to be.”

I don’t share your optimism. I think it’s very possible (if not probable) that Trump will indeed mount a military takeover. Hegseth is all in, IMO.
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I would not describe my feelings as "optimism." I don't doubt that some people in Trump's admin would be willing to go for it. I don't think that includes Trump himself (though he is stupid enough to possibly be manipulated into it without really intending it). But I don't think people truly understand what a "military takeover" of the US would entail. There is a big difference between a military takeover of 1930s Germany and a military takeover of the 2020s USA, in terms of land area, population, decentralization of media and communications networks, etc.

As I have said before, we should by all means raise the alarm about our country's increasingly rapid slide into Orban-esque authoritarianism. People need to understand he ways in which the Trump admin is destroying democratic institutions and replacing expertise and competence with bootlickers and a cult of personality. I simply do not think "military takeover of the country" is the danger we need to be warning people about, nor do I think Trump-Hitler comparisons are helpful or effective (and in fact I think they make it easier for potentially persuadable voters to tune out the people making those comparisons).
 
rodoheel said:
I would not describe my feelings as "optimism." I don't doubt that some people in Trump's admin would be willing to go for it. I don't think that includes Trump himself (though he is stupid enough to possibly be manipulated into it without really intending it). But I don't think people truly understand what a "military takeover" of the US would entail. There is a big difference between a military takeover of 1930s Germany and a military takeover of the 2020s USA, in terms of land area, population, decentralization of media and communications networks, etc.

As I have said before, we should by all means raise the alarm about our country's increasingly rapid slide into Orban-esque authoritarianism. People need to understand he ways in which the Trump admin is destroying democratic institutions and replacing expertise and competence with bootlickers and a cult of personality. I simply do not think "military takeover of the country" is the danger we need to be warning people about, nor do I think Trump-Hitler comparisons are helpful or effective (and in fact I think they make it easier for potentially persuadable voters to tune out the people making those comparisons).
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The military doesn't actually have to take over that much land. Just the blue areas. And probably not all of them.
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BlooVooDoo said:
I am actually starting to think there is a real risk here. Between the use of NG and various federal law enforcement agencies to police cities and harass/detain/kidnap people of color (including legal residents and even citizens), and the DOGE theft and compilation of wide ranging personal information on almost everyone it wouldn’t be hard to target an area for an intimidation campaign - I’m sorry, an “election integrity” campaign - that could greatly suppress votes in neighborhoods that are Dem strongholds. Imagine armed men in masks reviewing data on a tablet as people file onto their precinct.
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If you are just starting to think it, you are way behind. There will never be elections without Republican preordained outcomes again in the United States. That is not hyperbole. That is jusy the reality this nation embraced by handing full control of government to these people.
 
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