Trump fascism stage 3: voting.

The idea that Trump wants to do this via executive order is sort of funny.

I am worried about him getting Republicans to change federal law to regulate the manner of elections to be no mail in votes (I don't recall right off hand the specific constitutional language). Suppose they were to do that late 2025 or early 2026. There's no way the Western states that rely primarily on mail-in voting could possibly be ready for that. So would the courts say, "ok feds yes you have the power to do this, but there has to be a lead time so that states can prepare themselves"? I know what Sotomayor would say. I know what Kav would say if Biden was pres. What would Kav say if Trump is pres? That's the question. The right answer, of course, is that the 10th amendment and federalism generally places some constraints on the ability for Congress to turn on a dime on complex endeavors. Would that be the SCOTUS answer? My gut says, no, they'd fucking let it happen. But there's a difference between allowing gerrymandering and greenlighting a rule that would essentially nullify the integrity of all the elections.
 
superrific said:
Yes, and it's possible that by baiting them into responding, we end up causing them to reaffirm their allegiance. They'll show up with the bullshit and won't budge from that, because it stopped being in an intellectual discussion a long time ago. So they come back and are humiliated and then they just devote themselves to Trump even more.
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I think at this point for most of MAGA it's an emotional attachment that is part of their identity. They're MAGA because they feel that certain things are true concerning who are "real Americans" and how things should be and they support Trump at an emotional/identity level because he says the things they feel to be true and right.

I imagine that for most of them that the only way they drop their support is for Trump to do something that negatively affects them personally in a substantial way and beyond what can be spun that Dems or RINOs are the actual problem. There's just nothing else that's going to cause them enough dissonance to cause them to leave their MAGA feelings/identity behind.
 
rodoheel said:
Fingers crossed that at some point Trump is dumb enough to mention Dominion voting machines by name.

The main thing that has saved Trump from defamation claims over the years, while his subordinates and media flunkies have been nailed with massive judgments and settlements, is that whether by design or idiosyncrasy he's always lying about groups of people that are too large or vague to make him subject to defamation claims. It's the genius (intentional or unintentional) of Trump's lying - he's basically realized that there's a weak spot in American law where you can get in trouble if you lie about specific people but when you just make your lies bigger, more sweeping, and more grandiose it's really hard to do anything about them from a legal perspective.
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I think it's basically impossible to sue the president over defamation. The office protects him from consequences, even before the Kangaroo Supreme Court tipped the scales in his favor.
 
Something that infuriates me is how quickly so much of his BS is normalized…even here. ICE raids… off the boards and media. Epstein…seems off the boards and media. Tariffs…off the boards and media. “Big Beautiful Bill”…off the boards and media. Pardons January 6th insurrectionists…off the boards and media. And on it goes. Normalization makes it easier for a democracy to become a autocracy.
 
tarheelbillie said:
Something that infuriates me is how quickly so much of his BS is normalized…even here. ICE raids… off the boards and media. Epstein…seems off the boards and media. Tariffs…off the boards and media. “Big Beautiful Bill”…off the boards and media. Pardons January 6th insurrectionists…off the boards and media. And on it goes. Normalization makes it easier for a democracy to become an autocracy.
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It’s tough to maintain an appropriate level of outrage and mount an effective defense when each day brings a totally new and extraordinary assault on our democracy.

This is what “flooding the zone” looks like in action, and unfortunately our system of government—and our own personal psychological integrity—isn’t really built to effectively handle such a flood.
 
SnoopRob said:
I think at this point for most of MAGA it's an emotional attachment that is part of their identity. They're MAGA because they feel that certain things are true concerning who are "real Americans" and how things should be and they support Trump at an emotional/identity level because he says the things they feel to be true and right.

I imagine that for most of them that the only way they drop their support is for Trump to do something that negatively affects them personally in a substantial way and beyond what can be spun that Dems or RINOs are the actual problem. There's just nothing else that's going to cause them enough dissonance to cause them to leave their MAGA feelings/identity behind.
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That's a lotta words to say "it's a cult."
 
UNCatTech said:
This fucking idiot thinks that paper is more accurate and sophisticated?
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I’m good requiring paper ballots.

I’ve voted on paper ballots that have been scanned a la standardized tests since at least 1982….maybe since the first time I could vote (1980).

I voted on those old school lever machines in the 1988 Primary in Wake County and in Amherst, MA in 1992. I figure those things were “gameable” as can be. Otherwise, I’ve always voted on a paper ballot that I fed into a scanning machine that also stored the ballot and counted (unofficially) all the ballots fed into it.

A paper ballot fed into a scanning machine is a paper trail. I like that.

I’ve also used ATM’s since 1979 or so. I’ve been comfortable with their security all along. Of course, a bank wants to make sure ATM’s are secure.

Some people have an incentive to game paperless voting machines.
 
EyeballKid said:
It’s tough to maintain an appropriate level of outrage and mount an effective defense when each day brings a totally new and extraordinary assault on our democracy.

This is what “flooding the zone” looks like in action, and unfortunately our system of government—and our own personal psychological integrity—isn’t really built to effectively handle such a flood.
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I’d like to add to this:

This is why Dems seem so inept at this point, and why (at least IMO) we haven’t yet seen significant nationwide protests and riots on a daily basis.

It’s hard to keep focus and figure out which battles to fight when there’s some new crazy shit happening every week. It’s hard for people to even understand the impact of the daily moves of Trump/Musk/Miller and other MAGAs, let alone how they’re getting away with all the corruption and law-breaking.
 
tarheelbillie said:
Will someone please send this bastard a copy of the United States of America Constitution. A big print version!
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(1) Do you think he’d read it?
(2) Would he understand it?
(3) Would he comply with it?
(4) If he doesn’t comply, would SCOTUS or Congress enforce the Constitution and laws of the US?

I’ll answer my questions:
(1) No
(2) No
(3) No
(4) No and no
 
EyeballKid said:
It’s tough to maintain an appropriate level of outrage and mount an effective defense when each day brings a totally new and extraordinary assault on our democracy.

This is what “flooding the zone” looks like in action, and unfortunately our system of government—and our own personal psychological integrity—isn’t really built to effectively handle such a flood.
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That is the M.O.
 
I'm just so incredibly tired of being CONSTANTLY lied to by the most powerful people in the country. And yes, for the sake of consistency, I'll include being lied to about Biden's mental condition after the 2022 midterms. But the constant stream of lies from 2016 to 2021 make Biden's term look like Abraham Lincoln, and the last eight months (really much longer, given the extreme dishonesty of Trump's campaign) have been 1,000 times worse than Trump's first term. It's extremely hard to find ANYTHING truthful that comes out of Trump's mouth. And that's not partisanship talking. It's objective reality. Trump lies about literally everything.

Just in the last 24 hours (and this is FAR from exhaustive) --
  • Trump has not resolved six wars.
  • Almost all of the deals Trump has helped negotiate have been ceasefires.
  • Dozens of countries (with democratic systems more functional than ours) use mail-in voting.
  • Obama did not "give" Crimea to Russia.
  • DC crime is not down since Trump nationalized the local police force and sent in the military.
  • DC restaurants are slower than they were before Trump's domestic military action, not busier.
  • Biden did not "give" Ukraine $350 billion.
I'm leaving out anything subjective -- these are just OBVIOUS lies that are contradicted by the indisputable evidence. And this leaves out Trump's constant lies about inflation, tariffs, the price of gas, etc., etc., which I don't recall him talking about in the last 24 hours. As we all recall, the WaPo calculated that Trump lied 30,573 separate times during his first term, an average of 21 lies every day he was in office.

If we emerge from the other side of this in 2029, we'll need a ton of help and effort to rebuild the framework of a functional democracy in America. But at the very, very least, I DESPERATELY hope we can have a president who will tell us the truth. Zero chance that will be a Republican, unfortunately.
 
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