Trump / Musk (other than DOGE)

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Calheel said:
The Emancipation Proclamation was probably the biggest executive overreach in US history, but we are pretty OK with it now.
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That fits nicely in the broad category of war powers/state of emergency executive overreach, which I agree is necessary, but rife for abuse. One of the reasons all the emergencies Trump declared yesterday concern me.
 
DiehardHeelFan said:

Trump's mass deportation plan could drain more than $20 billion a year from Social Security​

www.businessinsider.com

Trump's mass deportation plan could drain more than $20 billion a year from Social Security

President Donald Trump's mass deportation plans could have a significant economic side effect: draining Social Security funding.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
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That’s not good. I think Trump was hoping to raid SS so he and his uber-rich buddies could get another tax break. Now where will he get those funds from? I suppose we will just add it to the deficit.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
Executive order abuse has gotten totally out of control. Obama did it too much but the practice that is in place now is totally insane. Trump just signing things into effect is insanity.
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Obama signed the fewest executive orders per days in office compared to any president who came after Grover Cleveland, who left office in 1897.
 
Paine said:
There are some that think conservatism started with Buckley, but I think that’s hogwash honestly.
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“I am obliged to confess I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University.”
— William F. Buckley, National Review Mission Statement, November 19, 1955

“A conservative is someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop, at a time when no one is inclined to do so, or to have much patience with those who so urge it.”
― William F. Buckley
 
sringwal said:
What is your definition? Same question for lawtig.
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Are you trying to facilitate some type of debate as to whether the republican party or democratic party more closely represents political conservatism? not sure what the goal is? Who represents the parties? ZZL posters?
 
nycfan said:
I am missing the joke(??)
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Not to dismiss the tasteless attempt at humor, but I believe OGtruthurts was responding to callatoroy’s comment “Then you don't know what the definition of political conservative is.” which Kingpin had quoted in the previous post.
 
hedge said:
“I am obliged to confess I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University.”
— William F. Buckley, National Review Mission Statement, November 19, 1955

“A conservative is someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop, at a time when no one is inclined to do so, or to have much patience with those who so urge it.”
― William F. Buckley
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Those are interesting quotes, since I have thought many, many times that I would gladly vote for a random person drawn from the 315 million Americans to be our president over Donald Trump.
 
Callatoroy said:
Are you trying to facilitate some type of debate as to whether the republican party or democratic party more closely represents political conservatism? not sure what the goal is? Who represents the parties? ZZL posters?
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I think he’s just asking you to define what it means to be a conservative. Maybe that’s hard after the enormous expansion and consolidated of federal power, at the expense of personal liberties, that has happened over the last couple of days?
 
lawtig02 said:
Those are interesting quotes, since I have thought many, many times that I would gladly vote for a random person drawn from the 315 million Americans to be our president over Donald Trump.
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Yep, it comes across as very populist...
 
lawtig02 said:
I think he’s just asking you to define what it means to be a conservative. Maybe that’s hard after the enormous expansion and consolidated of federal power, at the expense of personal liberties, that has happened over the last couple of days?
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By the way, I still think you’re much smarter than the typical right winger who posts here. At some point soon, you’re going to snap out of it and realize what an absolute shitshow you’ve been JCDing.
 
lawtig02 said:
Those are interesting quotes, since I have thought many, many times that I would gladly vote for a random person drawn from the 315 million Americans to be our president over Donald Trump.
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I'm genuinely perplexed by your change in my perceived level of radicalization of your comments about trump over the last several months (since the election). Is it you hate the man? You hate his agenda? You hate both? Do you hate the man more than the agenda or vice versa? While your comments gave a clear picture that you didn't like trump, they were far more tame. Did you believe kamala was going to win and you wouldn't be faced with the current reality? There could be discussion without it getting sidetracked by trump hatred. He didn't get between the differences on policy.
 
I'm pretty comfortable saying anyone who is defending Elon's Nazi salute is a shit human.

If that was accidental or unintentional, then my fist connecting with their face would likewise be excused, yes?

And before anyone tries to equivocate on the issue of harm, a Nazi salute is a threat of violence, because Nazism is state violence against disfavored minorities on a massive scale. Point blank, that is what a Nazi salute means - "I will kill people given the chance."
 
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Callatoroy said:
I'm genuinely perplexed by your change in my perceived level of radicalization of your comments about trump over the last several months (since the election). Is it you hate the man? You hate his agenda? You hate both? Do you hate the man more than the agenda or vice versa? While your comments gave a clear picture that you didn't like trump, they were far more tame. Did you believe kamala was going to win and you wouldn't be faced with the current reality? There could be discussion without it getting sidetracked by trump hatred. He didn't get between the differences on policy.
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1. I have thought Trump is one of the worst humans on the face of the planet since long before he was a serious candidate for president. I see him as the absolute antithesis of everything my faith teaches me is desirable. Or, to bring it closer to home, he’s the opposite of what I want my son to be.

2. Trump is BY FAR the biggest reason I left the Republican Party. I literally cannot imagine supporting a party that embraces him.

3. There is no conservative “agenda” being discussed in the US today. MAGA is about as far from conservative as you can get. It’s at the place where anarchism, religious nationalism, and fascism meet. Dems have embraced a lot of conservatism, but there’s no true conservative policy discussion to be had. And that’s almost entirely because Trump has hijacked it.
 
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Callatoroy said:
Are you trying to facilitate some type of debate as to whether the republican party or democratic party more closely represents political conservatism? not sure what the goal is? Who represents the parties? ZZL posters?
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You accused lawtig, a life-long conservative, and a Republican until Trump, of not understanding what conservatism is.

It strikes me as only fair that you either offer up your definition or, after he gave his definition, which he has, of explaining what, about his definition, is incorrect.

In order for us to function as a society, or at least as a message board, we should all understand what each other means when they use terminology, even if we disagree about those definitions.
 
Callatoroy said:
Why? According to trump, China, with 1.4 billion people pays $39 million and the US with 325 million people pays $500 million. If true do you think that’s equitable?
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Wait. So now we are doing this based on population rather than GDP? But for NATO we need to base it on GDP for it to be fair? Pick a lane.
 
IMO, the issue is that Musk’s gesture and that of Laura Ingraham a few years ago, are the kind of thing that anyone who abhors what Hitler and Nazis stood for would avoid like an elevator full of lepers. This isn’t an oops like pointing with a single finger which may offend some cultures with which you are unfamiliar. This is a gesture synonymous with the most hateful movement in the West post enlightenment. If you have grown up in Europe or North America you cannot be unaware of what that salute is. If you can complete the gesture well enough for it to be confused as such, you’re obviously not too concerned with casually being mistaken for the sort that would commit genocide. How is that supposed to be a mitigating factor? I’m not a nazi, I just can’t be bothered to avoid looking like one.
 
I will also add that I think part of the disconnect in the conversation is the assumption that many of us only started hating Trump when he first ran for president.

Personally, I have felt like he represented the worst part of America since the days on Lifestyles of The Rich and Famous in the late 1980s. I was a small child at the time, but it was apparent then who he was, and everything he has done since then has only cemented the view I forms of him at the time.

I have said it before, but he has always struck me as a Mark Twain caricature come to life, 150 years later. He and Musk are essentially the Duke and the King made flesh.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
IMO, the issue is that Musk’s gesture, and that of Laura Ingraham a few years ago, are the kind of thing that anyone who abhors what Hitler and Nazis stood for would avoid like an elevator full of lepers. This isn’t an oops like pointing with a single finger which may offend some cultures with which you are unfamiliar. This is a gesture synonymous with the most hateful movement in the West post enlightenment. If you have grown up in Europe or North America you cannot be unaware of what that salute is. If you can complete the gesture well enough for it to be confused as such, you’re obviously not too concerned with casually being mistaken for the sort that would commit genocide. How is that supposed to be a mitigating factor? I’m not a nazi, I just can’t be bothered to avoid looking like one.
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Well yeah.

When added to the facts that Musk has cultivated an alt-right, white supremacist, neo-Nazi friendly environment on X, has trolled hard by reposting and spreading misinformation from alt-right neo-Nazis, and has come out in favor of the neo-Nazi friendly party in Germany, it’s entirely disingenuous to try to make it seem like this was just an innocent mistake by a socially awkward guy.
 
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