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Trump / Musk (other than DOGE)

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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  • Replies: 12K
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  • Politics 
ZenMode said:
Oh, we vaccinate LOTS of people without economy-crushing lockdowns, discharging our military personnel, forcing the closure of small businesses, disallowing people from gathering with family and friends, etc.

The science behind immunology is different from all of that.
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What’s the first requirement for a vaccination program?
 
ZenMode said:
Oh, we vaccinate LOTS of people without economy-crushing lockdowns, discharging our military personnel, forcing the closure of small businesses, disallowing people from gathering with family and friends, etc.

The science behind immunology is different from all of that.
Click to expand...
But you have to actually have a vaccine. Until then the lockdowns are the only thing to prevent the virus from spreading worse than it already is.
 
ZenMode said:
discharging our military personnel
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please explain to everyone what rules our military personnel do or dont have to follow.

see, i thought the nature of the military is that if you are given an order to take a vaccine, you take it. if you don't, you shouldnt be in the military.

what if an army unit is ordered to assault a birds nest with a sniper? can the soldiers say, "thats really dangerous, i don't think we should have to do it."

when do service members have to follow orders, and when don't they? if you could explain that, it might help.
 
Carolina Jones said:
But you have to actually have a vaccine. Until then the lockdowns are the only thing to prevent the virus from spreading worse than it already is.
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Either have a vaccine, natural herd immunity or a combination of both. You also need to have a virus that is so dangerous that it justifies lockdowns, firings, attempted massive government overreach, etc. How dangerous is a virus is at least partially subjective, which opens the door to overreaction.
 
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ZenMode said:
Either have a vaccine, herd immunity or a combination of both. You also need to have a virus that is so dangerous that it justifies lockdowns, firings, attempted massive government overreach, etc. How dangerous is a virus is at least partially subjective, which opens the door to overreaction.
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I don't think the number of people that died of COVID and still have problems from it is subjective
 
superrific said:
please explain to everyone what rules our military personnel do or dont have to follow.

see, i thought the nature of the military is that if you are given an order to take a vaccine, you take it. if you don't, you shouldnt be in the military.

what if an army unit is ordered to assault a birds nest with a sniper? can the soldiers say, "thats really dangerous, i don't think we should have to do it."

when do service members have to follow orders, and when don't they? if you could explain that, it might help.
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The question I'm asking isn't whether not military personnel have to follow orders. The question is whether or not Covid is so dangerous that it, among other actions, justifies forcing vaccination or be discharged.

Given the demographics of the military, there certainly seems to be a case that forcing vaccination is not justified. Not many old, fat, generally unhealthy people in the military.
 
ZenMode said:
Either have a vaccine, herd immunity or a combination of both. You also need to have a virus that is so dangerous that it justifies lockdowns, firings, attempted massive government overreach, etc. How dangerous is a virus is at least partially subjective, which opens the door to overreaction.
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This is complete nonsense. You are completely out of your depth.
 
ZenMode said:
The question I'm asking isn't whether not military personnel have to follow orders. The question is whether or not Covid is so dangerous that it, among other actions, justifies forcing vaccination or be discharged.
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you were complaining that military personnel were being discharged. that was entirely within their control.

what the fuck do you know about troop readiness? have you ever been a military officer? suppose you are captain of a submarine and one of the sailors doesnt want to take the vaccine. should he be forced? when answering that question, ask yourself whether the opinions of the other sailors matter. if the other sailors' morale and trust would decline from soldiers prioritizing their anti-vax bullshit over the health of the crew, should that be taken into account? how about the fact that the sailors were going to be on a submarine? or what would happen to the operational readiness of the ship if there was a covid outbreak.

that you feel qualified to opine that the military should have done something different about covid, when you have no fucking idea what is required of military officers in all the circumstances that might arise (keep in mind that only the top brass know everything that is going on) -- this is why you are a bad person. this is why you are emblematic of the problem in the united states.

why is it so hard to follow two simple rules: 1. if you dont know what you're talking about and you feel the need to cast aspersions about someone who does, then stfu? and 2) if you aren't sure if you know what you're talking about, trying asking someone who does. or consult wikipedia. or ask chatgpt what are the relevant considerations. or do anything other than spout off?

why is that so hard? is it an unreasonable expectation that people should learn things before forming opinions? especially the strong ones you express? is it unreasonable for people to suggest that the price of admission to discussion is anti-ignorance? you dont even have to be knowledgeable. just dont be a fucking know-nothing.
 
superrific said:
you were complaining that military personnel were being discharged. that was entirely within their control.

what the fuck do you know about troop readiness? have you ever been a military officer? suppose you are captain of a submarine and one of the sailors doesnt want to take the vaccine. should he be forced? when answering that question, ask yourself whether the opinions of the other sailors matter. if the other sailors' morale and trust would decline from soldiers prioritizing their anti-vax bullshit over the health of the crew, should that be taken into account? how about the fact that the sailors were going to be on a submarine? or what would happen to the operational readiness of the ship if there was a covid outbreak.

that you feel qualified to opine that the military should have done something different about covid, when you have no fucking idea what is required of military officers in all the circumstances that might arise (keep in mind that only the top brass know everything that is going on) -- this is why you are a bad person. this is why you are emblematic of the problem in the united states.

why is it so hard to follow two simple rules: 1. if you dont know what you're talking about and you feel the need to cast aspersions about someone who does, then stfu? and 2) if you aren't sure if you know what you're talking about, trying asking someone who does. or consult wikipedia. or ask chatgpt what are the relevant considerations. or do anything other than spout off?

why is that so hard? is it an unreasonable expectation that people should learn things before forming opinions? especially the strong ones you express? is it unreasonable for people to suggest that the price of admission to discussion is anti-ignorance? you dont even have to be knowledgeable. just dont be a fucking know-nothing.
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Again, I am not questioning whether or not military personnel have to follow orders. I'm also not saying that every discharge military member in every fired medical employee didn't have final control over their destiny. I am questioning whether or not COVID justified the actions that were taken such as lockdowns, termination of employment, discharge from the military, disallowing of gathering in groups, attempted massive government overreach, etc.
 
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lawtig02 said:
By the way, I don't respond the way I do to you because you're conservative. I respond as I do because you're literally the only person on here who's depraved enough to try to defend the anti-American assault on democracy waged by your boss and his compatriots following the 2020 election. If you had the balls to disown your boss and call him out for the treasonous bastard he is, I'd respond to you very differently. But you just double down on the criminality of MAGA and its erosion of the rule of law. I respect a ton of lawyers who see the world differently than I do. But if you think your boss should not spend the rest of his life in prison, I have nothing but contempt for you. You should not have the privilege of representing your clients before courts of law.
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But, they are the "Rule of Law" party...
 
ZenMode said:
Oh, we vaccinate LOTS of people without economy-crushing lockdowns, discharging our military personnel, forcing the closure of small businesses, disallowing people from gathering with family and friends, etc.

The science behind immunology is different from all of that.
Click to expand...
It's interesting how a simple google search brings back so many positive articles of the lockdowns helping to save lives.

Now, there is also information that talks about the cost, both financially and emotionally/mentally. Which I do see. So, I guess the question is was it worth it. I'm sure most opinions are strongly influenced by their personal experience.

For my family, we are still dealing with the mental impact to our youngest daughter who was sent home from school in the middle of 9th grade and never had a "Normal" year of high school. At the same time, I had no family or friends to die from COVID. (I did know people that died from COVID or COVID related illnesses.) All in all, I believe we had the best outcome possible based on the information we had at the beginning and how we worked to find a vaccine and keep our medical infrastructure from collapsing.

COVID-19 lockdowns significantly reduced transmission of invasive bacterial diseases

Study suggests COVID-19 lockdowns reduced the spread of deadly invasive bacterial diseases – potentially saving thousands of lives. Diseases caused by invasive bacteria, including pneumonia, meningitis, and sepsis, are leading causes of illness and death worldwide, especially among children and...
pubmlst.org pubmlst.org
 
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