Trump still hasn't figured out tariffs are a tax on consumers — Announces blanket tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China

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The pro-tariff forces are beginning their push to replace federal income tax with tariffs.



But they aren’t all on the same page about how tariffs will “really” work.





[Cao has been mentioned as possibly one of Hegseth’s deputies at Defense]
 
nycfan said:
www.nytimes.com

U.S. Farmers Brace for New Trump Trade Wars Amid Tariff Threats

Despite their concerns, some farm operators still support the former president and prefer his overall economic plan.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

U.S. Farmers Brace for New Trump Trade Wars Amid Tariff Threats​

Despite their concerns, some farm operators still support the former president and prefer his overall economic plan.

"...As president, Mr. Trump imposed tariffs in 2018 and 2019 on $300 billion of Chinese imports, a punishment he wielded in order to get China to negotiate a trade deal with the United States. His action triggered a trade war between Washington and Beijing, with China slapping retaliatory tariffs on American products. It also shifted more of its soybean purchases to Brazil and Argentina, hurting U.S. soybean farmers who had long relied on the Chinese market.

When Mr. Trump finally announced a limited trade deal in 2019, American farmers were frazzled and subsisting on subsidies that the Trump administration had handed out to keep them afloat.

Now it could happen all over again.

... Mr. Trump remains popular in rural America, and voters such as Mr. Bowman say they are weighing a variety of factors as they consider whom to vote for.

...American agricultural groups, bracing for the worst, have been warning against the kinds of tariffs that Mr. Trump envisions.

China is the biggest market for U.S. soybean exports and a major buyer of corn. A study published this month, commissioned by the American Soybean Association and the National Corn Growers Association, found that a new trade war with China could cause U.S. soybean and corn exports to China to drop once again.

If China retaliated with a 60 percent tariff on U.S. corn, soybeans and soybean products, American soybean and corn growers could lose as much as $7.3 billion in combined annual production value. ...

The trade war with China, which lasted from 2018 to 2019, resulted in billions of dollars of lost revenue for American farmers. To help offset the losses, Mr. Trump handed out $23 billion in subsidies from a fund that the Department of Agriculture created to stabilize the farm sector. But that attempt to mitigate the damage was not viewed as a total success. Large farm operations and farmers in the south benefited the most, fueling concerns about fairness and leaving some farmers feeling cheated.

A second trade war could once again require Mr. Trump to compensate farmers — a reality that could complicate his stated plan to use tariff revenue to replace tax revenue. ..."
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Of course the Trump farmer base is pulling for tariffs. They know they will just get bailed out. Why would you ever work when the government gives you free money not to?

Isn't that the anti-welfare queen thing we are supposed to saying? Maybe some Republicans can help me with the messaging on it as I am new to this...
 
To all the Trump voters here who were claiming Trump would have TARGETED Tariffs (emphasis on “targeted” which is supposed to make them more palatable), are tariffs on everything from Canada, Mexico, and China “targeted?”
Is that what you were imagining, or is it more likely that you will claim that, yes, tariffs on anything and everything from those countries is what you meant by “targeted.”
 
Moving my posts off the first 100 days thread to here:

#1 export from Canada to US: crude oil. I assume Americans love paying more to put gas in their cars. Speaking of cars. #2 export. What's a 25% tariff on your Canadian built Ford?
 
altmin said:
Moving my posts off the first 100 days thread to here:

#1 export from Canada to US: crude oil. I assume Americans love paying more to put gas in their cars. Speaking of cars. #2 export. What's a 25% tariff on your Canadian built Ford?
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Now let's talk about who is the #1 importer of American goods? Yup, you guessed it - Sylvester Stallone... (obligatory Canadian reference)
Mexico and China are next up.

If you live in the real world, you know retaliatory tariffs are a thing. The Canadian dollar is already at a historically weak point against the American dollar thanks to the Biden recovery, which was not felt globally. If the Canadian buying ability is already below 70% of what it used to be and you tack on a 25% retaliatory price hike on top of that, Canadians might just start buying less American goods. The rest of the world makes a lot of stuff and we have two very nice ports in Halifax and Vancouver. Now, let's consider how that might effect the people who make the doodads and grow the whatnows that Canadians buy more than everyone else in the world from the US. Then add in the #2 and #3 consumer of American goods to the party.

It might not be prudent for the CEO of Doodad incorporated to make so many doodads this year, and why should he pay for all those Trump voters to make less doodads?

I hope the pain is real and there is someone who speaks clearly enough to get through the sugar high of "he lets me be the shitty person I aspire to be" to make it understood that you did this to yourself assholes.
 
ChileG said:
To all the Trump voters here who were claiming Trump would have TARGETED Tariffs (emphasis on “targeted” which is supposed to make them more palatable), are tariffs on everything from Canada, Mexico, and China “targeted?”
Is that what you were imagining, or is it more likely that you will claim that, yes, tariffs on anything and everything from those countries is what you meant by “targeted.”
Click to expand...
Canada and Mexico have 57 days to “comply” with Our Dear Leader’s demands to avoid these tariffs. They’ll both tighten their borders to avoid the tariffs. USA wins.
 
During Trump’s first administration I think he shocked the “establishment” leadership around the world. They didn’t really know how to react to him. Of course, then Covid hit and it upended everything.

Unfortunately, I am pretty confident that the other economic powers know their competitor now. I am afraid that the US is getting ready to find out.

“Craziness” works until it doesn’t.
 
Ramrouser said:
Canada and Mexico have 57 days to “comply” with Our Dear Leader’s demands to avoid these tariffs. They’ll both tighten their borders to avoid the tariffs. USA wins.
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I’m assuming that you are being sarcastic.
 
ChileG said:
I’m assuming that you are being sarcastic.
Click to expand...
Even if serious, he is onto something — it is quite possible that this is a performative threat that can be solved by making performative genuflection to Trump before he is inaugurated. Trump will happily pretend he’s proven who's the boss and stopped fentanyl and government backed immigration to the U.S. of Canada and Mexico just say they are doing something.

OTOH, I don’t think Trump can put blanket tariffs on Mexico or Canada anyway under the USMCA. That is a feature of the amended version of NAFTA that he loves to promote as some great improvement over NAFTA (though it was really the same deal with a few tweaks and the exemptions from tariffs was also a feature of NAFTA).
 
nycfan said:
Even if serious, he is onto something — it is quite possible that this is a performative threat that can be solved by making performative genuflection to Trump before he is inaugurated. Trump will happily pretend he’s proven who's the boss and stopped fentanyl and government backed immigration to the U.S. of Canada and Mexico just say they are doing something.

OTOH, I don’t think Trump can put blanket tariffs on Mexico or Canada anyway under the USMCA. That is a feature of the amended version of NAFTA that he loves to promote as some great improvement over NAFTA (though it was really the same deal with a few tweaks and the exemptions from tariffs was also a feature of NAFTA).
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I agree with the performative part, because it seems unlikely to me that illegal immigration and the fentanyl problems are going to be solved in 60 days.
And I think it is likely that Trump will claim a victory (and his acolytes will celebrate it) whatever the outcome of yesterday’s announcement is.
 
By no means do I think that Trump is some 5D chess-playing master tactician- I don’t, and he’s not, not by a longshot- but I do tend to think that those tariff announcements yesterday were performative, mainly because I don’t think that even the folks (well, the folks who aren’t Elon Musk) around Donald Trump are stupid enough to purposefully tank the economy and send inflation skyrocketing. We shall see.
 


But the guy who bankrupted his own casino, failed at selling steaks, collapsed his own scam university, and is so broke that he has to huckster guitars and gold sneakers, is such a bigly business genius and masterful negotiator!!!!! There’s no way those idiot Canadians and Mexicans could ever see right through his bluster and bullshit!
 
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