U.S. Budget & OBBB | OCT 1 - Gov’t Shutdown Begins

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farce© said:
There is no upside for Democrats in this fiasco. They should approve the continuing resolution to fund the government for seven weeks. They aren’t giving up their leverage, we will be in the same position in seven weeks.
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I don't pretend to know what would have been the best way to go-or the best way to go from here.
At this point I will go with
"The Pubs own all level of government-this is the hellhole they have brought us-and see if that resonates a year from now "
????
 
Zoo_View said:
I respect you a lot as a poster.

Are you FUCKING INSANE?!

Completely BREAKING the US Government will bring on the 1930’s.

The Heritage Foundation WANTS to break the American government.

Breaking the American government brings on deaths in the millions.
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I hear you, but I'm just looking at history, and I don't think Dems have the luxury of playing the short game anymore. That's been a losing proposition for Dems since at least 1980, with Pubs fucking up the economy, Dems starting to fix it, but Pubs being returned to power because there's no short game that operates on a fast enough schedule for impatient Americans. The effect has been a gradual decline of government functionality and trust in government by lower and middle class Americans.

Last November was the final opportunity for Dems to win the short term game. We lost. Now, the short term is 100% in the control of the Pubs, and we see the massive destruction they've created in just nine months. It will get much worse.

So what was the last time American politics disrupted the cycle of gradual economic erosion for lower and middle class Americans and adopted policies that really helped those groups in the long term? The most optimistic answer is Johnson's Great Society. But the more realistic answer is FDR's New Deal. Both of those, and especially the New Deal, only came about because of economic distress caused by conservative economic policies. The disruption that led to the New Deal was also impacted by isolationist policy. And the disruption that led to the Great Society was also impacted by immense public persecution of vulnerable minority groups by conservative states and leaders.

I still very much believe in the future of America. I do not think our decline is written in stone. But I also do not see a way out of our current patterns of dysfunction and idiocracy unless we as a nation experience a massive economic disruption. Americans just don't have the patience, the foresight, or the selflessness to make necessary changes in ordinary times. We only show that courage when the moment makes it necessary.

And that brings us to this moment. Conservatives have been demagoguing the government for decades now. But Trump 2.0 appears to be the moment when all of their planning is transitioning to rapid action. This is the conservative blitzkrieg. We're going to suffer from it no matter what Dems do in this particular moment regarding the funding of the government. But if we want real change -- an opportunity to get out of this brutally painful downward spiral -- we're going to need the pain to be really, really bad. It might require 1930s-style pain. I don't want that. I dread it. But I think it may be necessary. Otherwise, there won't be anything worth fighting for, in the short or long terms.
 
Centerpiece said:
Oh, I totally get that. But any Government Employee who doesn’t realize it was trump, JD, Elon, Johnson and Doge and all other Republicans who cut, destroyed, diluted, and killed Government programs, jobs and entire departments - in other words their own livelihoods and their colleagues and coworkers jobs, careers and livelihoods - are stupid as fuck and they won’t “get it” anyway. But I seriously doubt those career civil servants have such short memories. They’re not ignorant dumbasses. They know what’s up… and they won’t (trust me on this) they won’t blame anyone but trump and he Republicans. And if anyone thinks so little of the civil servants intelligence is not to be trusted.

Same holds for the military families. Even the grunts know the shit show the other day - with every single one of their highest level commanding Generals and Officers being subjected to that clown show - have to know trump, Heggy and the Pubs don’t have their best interests at heart. And if any enlisted serviceman/woman doesn’t realize that the Presidency, the House, The Senate and the Supreme Court are all held by Republicans - and that they alone had the power to NOT shut down the government - then they are truly ignorant dumbasses. And God help us if we are ever invaded by China or enter into a 3rd WWar because our ingnorant dumbass military is so inept.

Now, that said, I don’t think our military service members are that inept and ignorant. I think they know their Generals were held against their will to listen to that shit show. And they what’s up in terms of this Government shut down. At least they’d better….
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I applaud your optimism, and I'd love to be wrong. If I am, there should be a big swing in the mid-term elections next year.
Trump and his cronies control all three branches of government. The news media has been castrated. Moguls control most of social media. And Democrats are being made scapegoats for the shutdown. That is the reality we face.
Not enough Americans appreciate what this fight is about. It is simpler to believe that Medicaid funding benefits work-shirkers and illegal immigrants and disincentivizing the healthcare marketplace is simply rolling back "Obamacare" for minorities.
I don't see a clear path to a win for Schumer and Jeffries.
 
MSNBC had to cut away from Mike Johnson because his lies on healthcare coverage were so egregious, they said it was journalistically unethical to stay on the press conference.

Thou shalt not bear false witness unless thou are second in line to the presidency or something...
 
lawtig02 said:
EMTALA REQUIRES hospitals to provide emergency care to undocumented persons. There would be no point in determining proof of citizenship. The hospital would be required by federal law to provide care either way.
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JD says FedGov will stop reimbursing for non-citizens who are uninsured, so he must envision citizenship verification being involved somewhere in the process.
 
1moretimeagain said:
JD says FedGov will stop reimbursing for non-citizens who are uninsured, so he must envision citizenship verification being involved somewhere in the process.
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I'm not at all sure Vance has a clue what he's talking about, but it may be that citizenship is determined somewhere in the process. From the hospital's perspective, though, you either treat the emergency patient regardless of citizenship or insurance status, or you violate federal law. The administration can choose not to reimburse hospitals for some of those services, I guess, but that just means the hospitals will have to either pass the cost along to everyone else or go under. DOJ could also choose not to go after hospitals that violate EMTALA by refusing emergency treatment to uninsured undocumented people, but that's corrupt as hell. And good luck getting doctors who live by their oath to turn someone away just because he or she has brown skin.
 
DOW set a record at close last night. Wall St loves the shutdown
 
Trump said the president bares the responsibility of a government shutdown and must work with the other side to get a deal done.
 
mynameisbond said:
I applaud your optimism, and I'd love to be wrong. If I am, there should be a big swing in the mid-term elections next year.
Trump and his cronies control all three branches of government. The news media has been castrated. Moguls control most of social media. And Democrats are being made scapegoats for the shutdown. That is the reality we face.
Not enough Americans appreciate what this fight is about. It is simpler to believe that Medicaid funding benefits work-shirkers and illegal immigrants and disincentivizing the healthcare marketplace is simply rolling back "Obamacare" for minorities.
I don't see a clear path to a win for Schumer and Jeffries.
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Sadly, you are probably correct. And if it plays out like that and the Authoritarian Dictatorship comes to complete fruition after 2026 midterms… and Trump is allowed to stay in office a third term, etc. etc., then so be it. I don’t really have to care. I do care and I will care… and I’ll vote accordingly and try to convince those around me to vote likewise, and I’ll participate in the peaceful protest marches yada yada yada… But I’m old, retired, SS, pension, empty nest, house paid for, Zero debt, little nest egg in a ROTH IRA, etc. Loads of friends in Europe with whom I could do a work around if the wife and I want to relocate… so, fuck it. At the end of the day, fuck it… and screw the “good old USA” - the place ain’t that damn great anyway… especially if it goes full on Maga, Christian Nationalist, Fascist State. Fuck ‘Em all. I’ll quit caring. But for now at least, I’ll still hold on to just that slim sliver of optimism - although I’m not sure why…
 
lawtig02 said:
I hear you, but I'm just looking at history, and I don't think Dems have the luxury of playing the short game anymore. That's been a losing proposition for Dems since at least 1980, with Pubs fucking up the economy, Dems starting to fix it, but Pubs being returned to power because there's no short game that operates on a fast enough schedule for impatient Americans. The effect has been a gradual decline of government functionality and trust in government by lower and middle class Americans.

Last November was the final opportunity for Dems to win the short term game. We lost. Now, the short term is 100% in the control of the Pubs, and we see the massive destruction they've created in just nine months. It will get much worse.

So what was the last time American politics disrupted the cycle of gradual economic erosion for lower and middle class Americans and adopted policies that really helped those groups in the long term? The most optimistic answer is Johnson's Great Society. But the more realistic answer is FDR's New Deal. Both of those, and especially the New Deal, only came about because of economic distress caused by conservative economic policies. The disruption that led to the New Deal was also impacted by isolationist policy. And the disruption that led to the Great Society was also impacted by immense public persecution of vulnerable minority groups by conservative states and leaders.

I still very much believe in the future of America. I do not think our decline is written in stone. But I also do not see a way out of our current patterns of dysfunction and idiocracy unless we as a nation experience a massive economic disruption. Americans just don't have the patience, the foresight, or the selflessness to make necessary changes in ordinary times. We only show that courage when the moment makes it necessary.

And that brings us to this moment. Conservatives have been demagoguing the government for decades now. But Trump 2.0 appears to be the moment when all of their planning is transitioning to rapid action. This is the conservative blitzkrieg. We're going to suffer from it no matter what Dems do in this particular moment regarding the funding of the government. But if we want real change -- an opportunity to get out of this brutally painful downward spiral -- we're going to need the pain to be really, really bad. It might require 1930s-style pain. I don't want that. I dread it. But I think it may be necessary. Otherwise, there won't be anything worth fighting for, in the short or long terms.
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After a lot of consternation and consideration I have reluctantly reached your well-stated position. America has reached a hot-burning tipping point into fascism. We will not come out of it as the America we knew: it’s barbarism or “socialism” (really just economic populism inflected by strategic socialistic components such as a more progressive tax system, de-privatization, and robust trust-busting, ie. a new New Deal).

My consternation arises from my doubts about the modern Democratic Party which has been complicit in the undoing of the New Deal in favor of neoliberalism, the utopia of the capital class whose beneficence funds the machine.

Unless and until the DNC is able to fully commit to economic populism there is no functional alternative to the toxic tonic of State Capitalism, ie. fascism. And let’s be clear: this means alienating the donor class including the pro-Zionist traitors who are in process of occupying our media landscape and silencing dissent.

What are the chances?
 
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