Ukraine War

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Trump, after speaking with Putin, says negotiations to end Ukraine war will start ‘immediately’​



"The call, which is the first known conversation between the presidents since Trump assumed office last month, came a day after Russia released an American imprisoned in the country.

Trump administration officials said they hoped the exchange could portend renewed efforts to end the conflict in Ukraine, which is about to enter its fourth year.

In a readout of the conversation posted on Truth Social, Trump said, “We discussed Ukraine, the Middle East, Energy, Artificial Intelligence, the power of the Dollar, and various other subjects.”

The Kremlin said Trump and Putin spoke for nearly 90 minutes. ..."
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I think the only reason they would consider agreeing to this is to stop having their people killed and because they are afraid that they are going to lose even more if the war goes on. Not saying now is that time for them sometimes you have to cut your losses.
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By now the Ukranians have shown their mettle. They are not going to quit and are frankly a very impressive people in terms of their will, ingenuity, learning speed and fight. One wonders what Russia was thinking as this has been by any objective measure a disaster for the Russian military. All Putin can do now is direct Trump to try and force a peace deal to stall for time while he uses his oil revenue to rebuild his forces.

I think if the war continues and Europe steps up, Russia will regret this invastion even more. In fact, I think that there is a chance that Europe ignores Trump's initiatives. The UK is harder to predict given how closely interwoven they are with US military.
 
That wasn't a friendship. That was "The enemy of my enemy..." After the war proved that. After all, we helped invade Russia in 1918.
 
nycfan said:
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Ummm, Putin could unilaterally declare peace any time and withdraw from Ukraine.
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Hegseth rules out NATO membership for Ukraine and says Europe must be responsible for country’s security​



“US Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth said on Wednesday that the war between Ukraine and Russia “must end,” that Kyiv joining NATO is unrealistic and that the US will no longer prioritize European and Ukrainian security as the Trump administration shifts its attention to securing the US’ own borders and deterring war with China.

…
“The United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement,” Hegseth said. And he added that any security guarantees offered to Ukraine “must be backed by capable European and non-European troops.”

“To be clear, as part of any security guarantee, there will not be US troops deployed to Ukraine,” he said.

Hegseth also said that a return to Ukraine’s pre-2014 borders, before Russia invaded Crimea and eastern Ukraine, “is an unrealistic objective.”

Many NATO allies would actually agree with Hegseth that getting Crimea back from Russia is not realistic, and not even Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has insisted on that as a precursor to peace talks. One NATO official said it would have been more concerning if Hegseth had said that returning to Ukraine’s pre-2022 borders was un(sic)realistic.

But the comments about security guarantees are sure to concern Zelensky, who said this week that Europe alone cannot provide meaningful security guarantees to Ukraine without American leadership. Zelensky has also continued to insist that his country joining NATO is the only way to deter Russia from launching new attacks in the future. …”
 
superrific said:
Ah yes, Trump laser focused on securing our own borders. You know, by talking about taking Gaza, Greenland, the Canal, etc.
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And there's the matter of grocery/egg prices too - something he barely mentioned on the campaign trail.
 


“… Hegseth seems to have given up two main points to Russian President Vladimir Putin, including a key piece of leverage in future negotiations to end the war between Ukraine and Russia. One of Putin’s major complaints about Ukraine has been the prospect of the country joining NATO along with the rest of eastern Europe.

Coupled with Donald Trump’s comments on the release of American Marc Fogel from a Russian prison Tuesday, where he claimed “we were treated very nicely by Russia,” Hegseth’s remarks suggest the new administration will prioritize better relations with Putin over defending Ukrainian sovereignty.

… In the past few weeks, Trump has said he will use tariffs as leverage against Russia and shaken down Ukraine for its natural resources in exchange for continued support. All of this doesn’t bode well for the future of Ukraine, which seeks not only to end Russian occupation of its land, but also better relations with the U.S. and Europe instead of a subservient relationship with Russia. Trump seems more concerned with keeping Putin happy and getting a payoff.“
 
nycfan said:
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Ummm, Putin could unilaterally declare peace any time and withdraw from Ukraine.
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Putin probably does want to make peace, now that he realized his military might not be able to defeat an armed boy scout troop.
 
Hey Putin let's negotiate a peace treaty. Before we start, we won't require NATO membership for Ukraine, we don't expect Crimea to be returned, the US won't be participating in securing the peace and the EU is meaningless to us. Let's get it on!
 
Enigma94 said:
Hey Putin let's negotiate a peace treaty. Before we start, we won't require NATO membership for Ukraine, we don't expect Crimea to be returned, the US won't be participating in securing the peace and the EU is meaningless to us. Let's get it on!
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Any thoughts, PandemicBlue/Calla/OG? Actually, wait— Before you respond, first imagine that a Dem-led administration had given away this kind of leverage. Got it? OK, now go...
 
So Trump and Putin are going to negotiate something and leave Ukraine out? Good luck with that. Everything Trump does is a circus and devoid of being constructive.

At this point, Ukraine won't agree to anything unless it gets something pretty substantial. What can Trump do if Ukraine won't agree? Remove sanctions yes. But Ukraine is doing a pretty good job of sanctioning Russia by war anyway. The American aid pipeline is already over so not sure what leverage points Trump has.
 
BlueSmoke said:
So Trump and Putin are going to negotiate something and leave Ukraine out? Good luck with that. Everything Trump does is a circus and devoid of being constructive.

At this point, Ukraine won't agree to anything unless it gets something pretty substantial. What can Trump do if Ukraine won't agree? Remove sanctions yes. But Ukraine is doing a pretty good job of sanctioning Russia by war anyway. The American aid pipeline is already over so not sure what leverage points Trump has.
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Ukraine doesn't have that kind of leverage — if Trump offers a deal and they say know, it won’t take long for him to end all US assistance. And I don’t see Europe stepping into that breach.
 
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