UNC Football Catch-all | Bill Belichick Era underway

[rodoheel]

We'll let this play out. But I'll just note that, if it's totally above board to solicit donations from a Saudi alum, why was it seemingly a secret that Lombardi went over there? Why not publicize that we're going to the four corners of the earth to solicit donations for UNC football?

 

[gregh1]

Ones whose dismemberment by bone saw of a respected journalist whose coverage of them they didn't like is literally recorded on tape?

GTFOOH

This reads like you are saying every individual living in Saudi is complicit in that murder and other morally horrible things. Is that what u are saying?

 

[gregh1]

We'll let this play out. But I'll just note that, if it's totally above board to solicit donations from a Saudi alum, why was it seemingly a secret that Lombardi went over there? Why not publicize that we're going to the four corners of the earth to solicit donations for UNC football?

Tells me we probably came home empty-handed.

 

[superrific]

i mean, i know enough.

famous last words.

Saudi Arabia is a feudal monarchy. Like most of Europe in the pre-Industrial period. And one feature of a feudal monarchy is the existence of nobility -- i.e. people of exalted status, often with high incomes that derive from peerages. There are thousands of "emirs" in Saudi Arabia, just as there are thousands of "lords" in England. Just as King George III did not control all the actions or investment of all the British lords, so does MBS not control the finances of the various emirs and other nobles.

What you are talking about happens on the royal level. I would be utterly shocked if UNC was engaged at that level. We are probably talking with lower level nobility. As stankey suggested, these people could be UNC alums. Or maybe they started watching American football and Julius Peppers was their favorite player. Or they dug Vinsanity. Do these people derive income from a system that is exploitative and abusive? Yes, they do. As do lots of Americans -- including many who provide big support to athletics programs.

 

[CFordUNC]

I think you should learn a lot more about Saudi Arabia before you keep spouting off. You're obviously quite upset with the football program in general and are thus subconsciously looking to be outraged, but you are way off the mark here. At least based on what we know.

Man, do not psychoanalyze me. You are not qualified to do so. I’m not subconsciously looking to be outraged about anything. I’m expressing my personal opinion, on a message board designed for such, that I do not believe that UNC should be soliciting investments or donations or whatever bullshit semantics we want to use to describe it, from Saudi Arabia. Some of y’all have a weird inability to understand that somebody expressing repeated disagreement or annoyance with something does not constitute outrage. Nothing involving UNC Football, or sports in general, has the power of the ability to outrage me.

So, yes, I am going to continue to voice my disagreement with UNC seeking investment or donation or whatever word they want to use, from someone in Saudi Arabia who, until we are told otherwise, we can assume has no ties or relationship with the university. I think it’s fair to question the wisdom of accepting investment or donation or whatever word they want to use, from someone like that. I certainly reserve the right to change my mind, and to acknowledge that I was wrong, should any facts come out that would require me to do so.

 

[OGtruthhurts]

again, blood money is everywhere but the truth hurts and most everybody would rather hear and believe a lie than to accept the truthful reality. just a society full of emotionally weak people.

 

[superrific]

I hear ya and appreciate the perspective. I think the difference is, though, that the probability of this mystery Saudi investor being someone who is not a member of the Saudi royal family is incredibly low. Given much of what we know about the KSA, it seems extraordinarily unlikely to me that some ultra wealthy would-be benefactor over there would either not have a connection to the royal family or would not have their blessing for investment in an American entity. I think very little goes on over there without the explicit consent or desire of the crown prince.

This is entirely false.

For instance, Osama bin Laden was an enemy of the Saudi royal family. He was also obscenely rich, and his money derived from his Saudi peerage. I believe they finally cut him off, but it was complicated and his family continued to realize income from those sources.

The House of Saud has about 15000 members. About 2000 of them hold political power. The rest just collect royalties, like rich texas landowners who collect royalties from the oil pumped from their land. And even of those 2000, it's not at all centralized.

 

[CFordUNC]

Wait a second, some of y’all believe that this person could be potentially a UNC alumnus or parent of a UNC student or alumnus, and the university would not have made such clear in its statement by the vice chancellor for communications and public relations?

 

[superrific]

Man, do not psychoanalyze me. You are not qualified to do so. I’m not subconsciously looking to be outraged about anything. I’m expressing my personal opinion, on a message board designed for such, that I do not believe that UNC should be soliciting investments or donations or whatever bullshit semantics we want to use to describe it, from Saudi Arabia. Some of y’all have a weird inability to understand that somebody expressing repeated disagreement or annoyance with something does not constitute outrage. Nothing involving UNC Football, or sports in general, has the power of the ability to outrage me.

So, yes, I am going to continue to voice my disagreement with UNC seeking investment or donation or whatever word they want to use, from someone in Saudi Arabia who, until we are told otherwise, we can assume has no ties or relationship with the university. I think it’s fair to question the wisdom of accepting investment or donation or whatever word they want to use, from someone like that. I certainly reserve the right to change my mind, and to acknowledge that I was wrong, should any facts come out that would require me to do so.

1. You come across as outraged.
2. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. Because what you have been writing here is ignorant and racist. You and wm.

 

[NCK9]

But that's not what I mean.

1. The PIF is a complex financial arrangement. It is not just a big pile of centralized money. In some ways, it's like a cash management system for Saudi nobility, sort of like how big American companies centralize cash management of their various subsidiaries. That's not all it is, but it's not just some big pot of royal money.

2. And to this point, consider the finances of the Saudi soccer league. Ronaldo is making, what, $50M a year to play soccer there? I think they offered Vini Jr. up to $500M. That money is coming out of the PIF, because the PIF is paying for the league; but the players are being given the money, no strings attached. We would be more like Ronaldo, I would think. The soccer/golf greenwashing thing is also a big centralized endeavor with specific backing from the royals. Any money raised by UNC would be unlikely to be like that.

The equivalent of the Ronaldo situation would be UNC leaving the ACC to join a Saudi sponsored league....I don't see that happening.

 

[CFordUNC]

Why aren’t there wealthy benefactors in Great Britain lining up to give UNC Football money? France? Germany? Japan? Mexico? Canada? Australia? China? South Korea?

 

[superrific]

Then go to the equally awful Americans and be transparent. Dont go to the folks who murdered thousands of Americans on American soil and who would do so again tomorrow if they felt like it.

Osama bin Laden murdered thousands of Americans, along with some other Saudi nationals. The reason he did so was that he declared himself an enemy of the Saudi government. He was not supported by the Saudi royal family, let alone the thousands of nobles and officials who get big money from the feudal arrangement there.

And of course, everyday Saudis had nothing to do with it.

This is a gross, racist stereotype that should have no place on this board.

 

[CFordUNC]

1. You come across as outraged.
2. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. Because what you have been writing here is ignorant and racist. You and wm.

1. That’s probably projection on your part.

2. Nothing that I or WMHeel have said constitutes “racism.”

 

[superrific]

The equivalent of the Ronaldo situation would be UNC leaving the ACC to join a Saudi sponsored league....I don't see that happening.

Right. This would be even less than that. The point is, Ronaldo is getting paid even though the Saudis are not remotely making a profit on him. They are funneling money to him and other big names in the hopes of establishing a premier global soccer league. The line between salary and donation in these contexts is thin.

 

[Ddseddse]

What do you know about Saudi Arabia? I'm guessing not too much. Saudi Arabia is not the rigid monarchy you imagine. In fact, there's considerable decentralization of finances.

Well, I seem to remember a huge "centralization of finances" with the the better portion of the Saudi Royal family under house arrest in a hotel signing away their interests to MBS.

Are you OK with that? Are you OK with jailing comedians who poke fun at the royal family for decades long jail terms? Are you OK with vivisection via bone saw of investigative journalists?

You have some balls to label all criticism MBS's SA (and his soft power use of the Sovereign wealth fund to whitewash all of this) as simple "racism".

 

[superrific]

2. Nothing that I or WMHeel have said constitutes “racism.”

Oh boy. I'm going to make one short statement to you and then leave it there, because I like you.

You are taking a very negative attitude toward a perceived event based on inaccurate stereotypes of a people and a country, who are foreign to you, to whom wm (and maybe you) assigns collective blame for a past atrocity, and who use that sense of collective blame to impugn all individuals about whom you know nothing.

You be the judge of whether that is or isn't racism.

 

[akillesheel]

famous last words.

Saudi Arabia is a feudal monarchy. Like most of Europe in the pre-Industrial period. And one feature of a feudal monarchy is the existence of nobility -- i.e. people of exalted status, often with high incomes that derive from peerages. There are thousands of "emirs" in Saudi Arabia, just as there are thousands of "lords" in England. Just as King George III did not control all the actions or investment of all the British lords, so does MBS not control the finances of the various emirs and other nobles.

What you are talking about happens on the royal level. I would be utterly shocked if UNC was engaged at that level. We are probably talking with lower level nobility. As stankey suggested, these people could be UNC alums. Or maybe they started watching American football and Julius Peppers was their favorite player. Or they dug Vinsanity. Do these people derive income from a system that is exploitative and abusive? Yes, they do. As do lots of Americans -- including many who provide big support to athletics programs.

i'm glad you've admitted your source of bias on this topic, because it makes your posting make a lot more sense. if pre-industrial europe existed right now, post-industry, we'd be saying a lot of the same things about it that we are and do about the KSA. that it existed in the West doesn't make it kosher.

i also truly don't know what Lombardi has done to earn this level of benefit of the doubt from you. it seems at least as likely that he saw other sports being funded by the royal family and decided that his pursuit of professionalizing UNC Football beyond its peers could include that same funding sources than that a random Saudi noble wanted specifically to fund UNC Football, which has essentially zero internationally relevant branding.

and finally, as i have already said, as thinking people it is imperative that we have a way to differentiate among the exploitations and abuses of the United States pre- and post-Trump, the evils of unchecked capitalism, and everything that we do know is being perpetrated by the Saudi monarchy.

 

[Ddseddse]

This reads like you are saying every individual living in Saudi is complicit in that murder and other morally horrible things. Is that what u are saying?

No. Is an oil embargo on Russian saying that every individual living in Russia is complicit in the invasion of the Ukraine? Of course not. WTF?

 

[superrific]

Well, I seem to remember a huge "centralization of finances" with the the better portion of the Saudi Royal family under house arrest in a hotel signing away their interests to MBS.

Are you OK with that? Are you OK with jailing comedians who poke fun at the royal family for decades long jail terms? Are you OK with vivisection via bone saw of investigative journalists?

You have some balls to label all criticism MBS's SA (and his soft power use of the Sovereign wealth fund to whitewash all of this) as simple "racism".

Stop. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I am not OK with any of that. I have criticized that shit unsparingly. I would never have anything to do with their horrifying golf league because it is an MBS initiative.

The House of Saud has 15000 members. Sometimes American media calls them all "royals" but that's not accurate. They are more like British lords. A tiny minority of them are connected to MBS. Most of them are just rich playboys. There is also some private wealth in the area, especially in the last 15 years, though I wouldn't think that to be the most likely source.

There are also Americans who live and work in Saudi Arabia. Lawyers who practice deal financing, who can get quite $$. Lots of US law schools have remote "campuses" in various places in Arabia and the UAE.

 

[superrific]

i'm glad you've admitted your source of bias on this topic, because it makes your posting make a lot more sense. if pre-industrial europe existed right now, post-industry, we'd be saying a lot of the same things about it that we are and do about the KSA. that it existed in the West doesn't make it kosher.

i also truly don't know what Lombardi has done to earn this level of benefit of the doubt from you. it seems at least as likely that he saw other sports being funded by the royal family and decided that his pursuit of professionalizing UNC Football beyond its peers could include that same funding sources than that a random Saudi noble wanted specifically to fund UNC Football, which has essentially zero internationally relevant branding.

and finally, as i have already said, as thinking people it is imperative that we have a way to differentiate among the exploitations and abuses of the United States pre- and post-Trump, the evils of unchecked capitalism, and everything that we do know is being perpetrated by the Saudi monarchy.

Again, just stop.

Saudi nobles routinely buy incredibly expensive cars. Who the hell do you think Bugatti sells its $5M cars to? Those ultra-luxury car brands basically survive on middle eastern feudal money. So what if there was a guy who likes UNC for some reason and decided that, instead of spending $5M on yet another car, it might be better to give some money to a university?

I'm not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. I know nothing about Lombardi. I'm just saying that anyone who goes to Saudi Arabia looking for $5M or $10M or whatever is statistically very, very likely to be dealing with someone who has at most tenuous connections with the ruling family.

And I'm reacting to some of the gross racism being spewed on this thread.